Delay on opening folders in My Computer (Vista32)

w0lfdale, perfect i started to suffer from this delay ... and was about to ask here
thanksssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss :laughing:

As to people not helping you:

Remember this is not the official support site (see the link in my signature to submit support requests). And the people who come here are volunteers, with other time commitments. When submitting official requests (or discussing issues here), people usually must be able to recreate the issue, in order to help you solve it. Or they need access to someone who can recreate the issue, or may have seen it before. The developers drop in here from time-to-time but they are usually very busy working to keep Opus updated. Just read the Release Notes file and you will see how busy they have been lately.

As to your issue:

I don't believe the 100 KB file size or the XML parsing has anything to do with the slowness you folks are experiencing. Practically everything you use in your Opus configuration is XML: your whole configuration, Icon Sets, toolbars, etc., they are all XML. I have toolbar (XML files) that are larger than 300 KB, and I have over 60 toolbars total, and I have no Opus slowness issues.
However, I do believe there might be some persistence data stored inside your system.off files (which is what I understand that file stores) that Opus 9 might not be writing or handling correctly. Perhaps from an Opus 8 configuration upgraded to Opus 9, or an Opus 8 configuration imported into Opus 9. It may be especially more likely, if you export from Opus 8 or 9 running on Windows Vista and restore to Opus 9 on Windows XP (or the other way around). In other words, it is most likely the information in the file that is closer to root cause of this issue, not the file itself, or it size. I did see some issues related to this file during beta testing.

If anyone is still experiencing slowness now (or experiences it again), don't delete system.off. Instead, just rename it and then restart Opus. And if that happens to cure your slowness, then I'm sure GPSoftware will want to examine the troublesome system.off file, or even your entire configuration including the troublesome system.off file, to see what might be causing the issue.

Some other things to look out for include software you have installed on your system that has added anything to the: Folder Tree, My Computer, name space, or Control Panel name space. The Windows Desktop is can also sometimes a culprit. If any of you have the Opus Favorites plug-in installed, this has also been known to lead to slowness at Opus start up.

@jjensson, Noddy, msaeed
Thanks , glad I could help.

@kenalcock
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I know. So I asked if anyone can give hand, that means the community, and blamed no one, again means the community not the authors or those who's in charge of this forum.

I don't agree. If you'd like to experience the delay and make sure it has nothing to do with any external factor, just grap your normal system.off file and copy the last ... element, and paste it repeatedly at the end of the file till it reaches 100 Kb in size, then test yourself.

And if you'd like to hit your head against the wall waiting for a responce from system folders, increase the size of the file to 1 meg.

So, I guess the cause of this delay (imo) is due to the following:
[ul]1. Type of data stored (big chunks of binary data, unlike most of other config files containign small text strings).
2. Size of the file.
3. Repeated access whenever you get into or out of a system folder.[/ul]
I may be wrong though, so the authors are those who have the final word.

PS: I never upgraded from v8 to v9, so I'm still unsure as to how I reached this size. Maybe, the more number of system folders you open, the bigger the file becomes.

Out of curiosity, I have tried to replicate this on my Opus 9 system. Some slowdown indeed takes place, but it's nowhere near the level that has been bugging posters in this thread.

Normally, my system.off file is a few KB in size and system folders respond instantaneously. This did not change when increasing the size to 50 KB and 100 KB. Finally, I have created a 400 KB system.off file and then I experienced a slowdown, but system folder contents were still displayed within about 0.2 s.

I did not go further, since the issue did seem to replicate successfully, but it is far less intrusive on my computer (which, BTW, is powered by a "slightly" obsolete Athlon XP Thoroughbred from 2003).

[quote="W0lfdale"]@jjensson, Noddy, msaeed
Thanks , glad I could help.

@kenalcock
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I know. So I asked if anyone can give hand, that means the community, and blamed no one, again means the community not the authors or those who's in charge of this forum.

I don't agree. If you'd like to experience the delay and make sure it has nothing to do with any external factor, just grap your normal system.off file and copy the last ... element, and paste it repeatedly at the end of the file till it reaches 100 Kb in size, then test yourself.

And if you'd like to hit your head against the wall waiting for a responce from system folders, increase the size of the file to 1 meg.

So, I guess the cause of this delay (imo) is due to the following:
[ul]1. Type of data stored (big chunks of binary data, unlike most of other config files containign small text strings).
2. Size of the file.
3. Repeated access whenever you get into or out of a system folder.[/ul]
I may be wrong though, so the authors are those who have the final word.

PS: I never upgraded from v8 to v9, so I'm still unsure as to how I reached this size. Maybe, the more number of system folders you open, the bigger the file becomes.[/quote]

For the sake of completeness, I generated another system.off file that was 1.57 MB in size, and I crafted it so that it contained My Computer only once and as the very last path entry.

Now with that file in place, displaying the contents of My Computer (as well as navigating out of it) took 1.9 s, but this is an extreme case indeed. As far as I could see, it would take way more than a thousand unique system folders to have such a system.off file for real. While this is unlikely, the negative performance delta is indeed there.

[quote="Alan"]Out of curiosity, I have tried to replicate this on my Opus 9 system. Some slowdown indeed takes place, but it's nowhere near the level that has been bugging posters in this thread.

Normally, my system.off file is a few KB in size and system folders respond instantaneously. This did not change when increasing the size to 50 KB and 100 KB. Finally, I have created a 400 KB system.off file and then I experienced a slowdown, but system folder contents were still displayed within about 0.2 s.

I did not go further, since the issue did seem to replicate successfully, but it is far less intrusive on my computer (which, BTW, is powered by a "slightly" obsolete Athlon XP Thoroughbred from 2003).
[/quote]

[quote="kenalcock"]As to people not helping you:
Remember this is not the official support site[/quote]

Oh, i didn't know that.

No, i'm a new user. Opus 9 is my very first Opus :slight_smile:

sv

My comments about the upgrading and migrating settings is just something I've actually seen and reported in a similar issue that related to the system.off file. I just want users to look out for it, or things like it, so hopefully we can see a more definitive pattern emerge.

Facts:[ol][li] Not everyone is getting this issue, only a few people are. This immediately tells us the root cause must be related to some specific set of circumstantial inputs. Right now, nobody knows exactly what these root-cause circumstances are.
[/li]
[li] You have ascertained where the results of the issue seem to manifest, inside the system.off file.
[/li]
[li] You have an action that temporarily alleviates the issue. However, it cannot be considered a fix.[/li][/ol]
Theories:[ol][li] At least for one of you, the system.off file was large (100 KB) when the issue occurred. I'm not sure others have reported their actual system.off files sizes to confirm this.

NOTE: I do not recommend manually duplicating elements in the system.off file, in order to increase it's size. I'm fairly certain system.off stores the Folder Format (or some internal equivalent thereof) for each system namespace folder you have visited in Opus. Duplicating one of these entries may actually cause a separate Opus issue unto itself, by creating two "sources-of-truth" for a given system namespace. So basically you might be scrambling system.off's brains, which might very well cause a different issue which manifests itself in similar behavior. The issue I reported with GPSoftware during beta testing manifested exactly the same behavior you folks are seeing here, but it was not file-size-related.
[/li]
[li] During beta testing, I encountered and reported an issue manifesting a similar behavior, which was related to the system.off file. However, it wasn't even close to 100 KB in size. In my issue, it turned out being that the persistence date (how I was viewing) for My Computer on Windows XP would cause issues when the configuration was imported into Windows Vista—the namespaces are very different between the two Windows versions. Deleting the system.off file did alleviated the issue, but was not the fix. The system.off file only stored this information, and deleting just made Opus use the default View Mode settings to view all system namespace folders. The more likely cause is that users (or some software) might be configuring some namespace View Mode that Opus is not storing correctly, or reading correctly once it is stored.[/li][/ol]
Things To-Do to Help Troubleshoot This Issue:
If you are afflicted by this (and it occurs on its own) try the following:

[ol][li] Try to collect some Opus usage data, in order to try to formulate a set of steps GPSoftware can use to recreate the issue. Only then, can the issue get resolved.

Think about the following:

Q-1: Have you or do you routinely visit any of the Windows Namespace folders listed below in Opus? How many of them? How often? Does the issue happen after visiting one of these in particular?

[ul][li] Administrative Tools[/li]
[li] Control Panel[/li]
[li] Desktop[/li]
[li] Downloaded Program Files[/li]
[li] History[/li]
[li] Inbox[/li]
[li] Internet Cache[/li]
[li] Fonts[/li]
[li] My Computer[/li]
[li] My Network Places[ul][li] Entire Network[ul][li] Microsoft Windows Network[ul][li] WorkGroup/Domain[ul][li] Shared Computer[ul][li] Scheduled Tasks[/li]
[li] Printers and Faxes[/li]
[li] Shared Drive Root[ul][li] Recycle Bin Folder — You could have one of these folders for each networked shared drive root, on which the Recycle Bin has been enabled.[/li][/ul][/li][/ul][/li][/ul][/li][/ul][/li][/ul][/li][/ul][/li][li] Network Connections[/li]
[li] Network Neighborhood [/li]
[li] Offline WebPages[/li]
[li] Portable Media Devices[/li]
[li] Printers and Faxes[/li]
[li] Recycle Bin — You could have one of these folders for each local partition, on which the Recycle Bin has been enabled.[/li]
[li] Scanners And Cameras[/li]
[li] Scheduled Tasks[/li]
[li] Temporary Internet Files[/li]
[li] The root of a virtual CD drive (such as from Daemon Tools, Alcohol, or InCD)[/li][/ul]

I believe there may also be other types of folders this file also stores information on. But this is a good list to start with. If you think others are relevant, by all means include that information.

Q-2: For the above list of items, do you have any software installed that may add to one of those namespaces or to the context menu (or even a Windows Explorer Menu) that is accessible from that namespace?

Q-3: For the above list of items, have you modified the View Mode in Opus when you display this namespace? To what?

Q-4: What folder does your lister open up to when you start Opus. Is it perhaps one of these folders? If so, what happens if you reconfigure Opus to open to normal local folder path?

Q-5: Do you use a removable drive that uses it's own utility to add context menu items, that is only sometimes plugged into your PC?

Q-6: Do have anything installed that has added something to the Folder Tree? Have you manually tweaked your system to add things to your Folder Tree?

Areas like these are most likely where a catalyst for the issue, if not the root cause of it, will be found. Something relates all the users afflicted by this issue together, that most other users are not encountering.
[/li]
[li] Open up system.off in the Opus Viewer Pane, and search for . Make a list of the unencrypted portion of each pathstring within your system.off file and post it here. Perhaps the number of such strings is the issue, or that everyone is going to the same types of locations. If folks can compare this, a pattern might emerge.
[/li]
[li] Save a copy of your system.off file (or ideally your whole configuration) to send to GPSoftware so they can analyze it. None of us really know what to look for, but they will. But try to narrow down the field a little as to what might be causing it.[/li][/ol]

You must have tested this on a WinXP/Win2K3 system. If you reread the thread, you'll find that this problem is apparent only on a Vista system.

@kenalcock
Thanks again for yor reply, I'm really impressed by the way you repesent your ideas :bulb:

I'm very skeptical about this, so I'll test it once I have access to my system.

PS: This issue is under Vista only, and I tested it on a freshly installed Vista in a VM, and I experienced the same delay by increasing system.off size, but maybe, as you mentioned, repeating the same element may cause problems. I'll try to reproduce the problem, so authors can come up with a solution.

Sorry for the potential misinformation, you're absolutely right about Vista. I just wondered if this affected my computer at all.

You must have tested this on a WinXP/Win2K3 system. If you reread the thread, you'll find that this problem is apparent only on a Vista system.
[/quote]

[quote="W0lfdale"]

I'm very skeptical about this, so I'll test it once I have access to my system.[/quote]

GPSoftware has already fixed this issue that I experienced. I'm only citing it here, because the behavior you see is the same and it relates to the same file. BTW it should've read "persistence data" not "persistence date"—that was a typo that my spell check didn't grab.

What I'm most curious about is what is actually inside your system.off file that makes it 100 KB? If you can create the issue (naturally, not artificially) and your system.off gets that large again. Zip up that file and post it here. It's the contents of that file that will most likely unlock the issue.

If I were you, I would:[ol][li] Clean Opus off my PC. Backup your configuration first. Uninstall it Reboot. Then ensure the Opus Program Files folder is gone. (Or just start with a virgin VPC).
[/li]
[li] Install Opus with only the out-the-box configuration.
[/li]
[li] Open a lister to one of the namespaces on that list I posted.

NOTE: When you first install Opus out-the-box, by default it opens a lister to the My Computer namespace, so this will be the first one you start with.

[/li]
[li] Do what you would normally do at the namespace—if you would customize it's View Mode in Opus , definitely then do that.
[/li]
[li] Close the Lister
[/li]
[li] Exit Opus
[/li]
[li] Reboot.
[/li]
[li] Time Opus as it starts.
[/li]
[li] Immediately copy your system.off file and version it with a unique filename.
[/li]
[li] Repeat Steps 3 through 9, until you hit the issue.
[/li]
[li] When you hit the issue, let it play out, and then exit Opus
[/li]
[li] Immediately copy the system.off file after you hit and version it with a unique filename.[/li][/ol]

Once you hit the issue, we should be able to do a file compare (using WinDiff or something similar) on the system.off where the issue occurred and the previous one where it did not occur. This will involve some effort on your part but it will give the guys at GPSoftware a fighting chance to make sense of things without access to your PC.

@kenalcock
Actually, it seems difficult to come up with such file size unartificially, mine accumulated throughout 3 months of backing up and restoring.

Thanks anyway.

I believe the only way you are going to get your file size big naturally, is to visit all of those folders I listed (and for some categories you will have more than one folder). Each time you visit such a folder, Opus will add an entry in that file.

If it doesn't happen right away, that's okay. That's the good thing, about these forums—this thread isn't going anywhere. And if anyone encounters this type of issue again, we at least have a plan of attack to troubleshoot it.

If anyone still has a big system.oft that was causing the problem could you zip it up and attached it to a post here (or a private message if you prefer)? I'd like to see if I can reproduce the problem just by copying the file over my one.

If you've got one from Windows Vista that would be preferable, but I'll take whatever you've got. :slight_smile:

Nudel, i sent you a PM.
jj

I started to get the same symptoms here the other day.
Vista, Dopus 9.0.0.9
I renamed the system-off file, and got the speed up again.

I have the file if it is needed for comparison.

The cause has been discovered and this should be fixed in the next release.