Deleted Folder Name remains in Folder Tree Pane

Okay, it took me ~10 minutes to find when it happens with a 50% chance

1 you need only one Opus window
2 go to desktop
3 create one folder
4 create 4 dated subfolders here (this is opus feature... CreateFolder NAME="{date|yyyy-MM-dd} {time|HH-mm-ss}")
5 go to first dated subfolder
6 create 2 dated sub-subfolders here
7 go to second dated sub-subfolder
8 create 1 (empty) text file here
10 create 1 (empty) text file the first subfolder (folder from step 5, i.e. folder that contains sub-subfolders), don't leave this folder
11 expand all these folders in the tree
12 hit F5 or whatever to refresh the tree
13 delete 2 dated sub-subfolders
14 tree is not updated with 50% chances,
(15 if the tree has been updated then just undo delete, hit F5 and repeat step 13, but don't forget to expand file tree after undo)

I think there are some extra steps, but I'm too lazy to find them! :angry:


Ah! Use CTRL+click to select these folders and DEL key to delete. Expand tree with a mouse.

I too have had this problem in I think every version of Opus I've had (since 8). I can't reproduce it, but it normally seems like I'm removing old folders that have problems--like file names too long, accessed denied because they were copied from a foreign system, read only, etc., and that even after I correct those problems and the files and folder are deleted, the names exist in the folder tree and give the "don't exist" error. Sometimes f5 works and sometimes not. But normally the folder tree becomes flaky after this until I close and reopen the lister.

I tried those 15 steps four times, which should have meant it happened at least twice for me (50%) and it didn't happen at all.

I'm going to lock this thread now because just repeatedly posting "it happens for me too" without properly answering any of the questions we've asked will get us no where. Until we can reproduce it we can't fix it. We need your help to reproduce it. If you're ready to answer the questions properly please feel free to start a new thread and we can try again.

Videos showing the problem:

the other post is locked.
if other info is required, then pls try to explain as best as possible, pls, because we as users seem to be on a different page.

Look at folder 2 on the right side.

This is the scenario with 2 Opus sessions, which is an exceptional scenario.
Anyway it gets you the idea.

This is the best I could do.

=

Thank you, the videos answer some of my questions and provide new information.

If a crash dump is created for the crash in the second video, please zip and email it to me (leo@gpsoft.com.au). That might reveal something important.

I have, I think, re-created the folders (but not the files in them, which I can't see) exactly as in your videos. I've attached a zip of that for reference, and as a starting point for anyone who wants to try similar things, to save time:

Testing.zip (60.8 KB)

I have done similar tests so what's in your video several times, without reproducing the problem:

Questions:

These questions should be answered by anyone who wants to help, so we can work out which aspects are important and which don't matter. The video and opw62's earlier replies already answer some of these questions, which I'll note below. We need answers to all of them from everyone who wants to help.

The first of these were already in the thread but I am reproducing them so everything is in one place, and elaborating on them as much as I can.

I will repeat the questions on their own at the end, without the commentary, so they are all together and easy to go through one-by-one.

[ol][li]If you open two separate windows showing the same folder, then delete the sub-folder from one of them, does the file display in both windows update? Or does only the window where you deleted the folder update, or only the other one, or is it sometimes either or both at random?

opw62 mentioned earlier that both folder trees failed to update update, but in the video it looks like one updates OK and the problem is only in the tree where the deletion was performed.

Maybe it's both sometimes and only one at other times?

When it happens, is it always the tree where the delete was performed (and maybe the other tree as well sometimes)?

What do other people see?

Is there a pattern to when it happens in both? For example, does it only happen in the other tree if it also happens to have the deleted folder selected, and never when another folder is selected?


[/li]
[li]Does this happen in all folders, or only in a particular place in the tree? (e.g. Does it only happen on a particular drive, or only below the My Documents branch, or similar?)

Try other locations in the tree to see if the same happens there. Try different drives.

opw62's video shows it happening at the roof of what looks like a generic secondary drive. That's useful information. Trying on the C:\ drive may also be useful, to rule out anything particular about the drive (filesystem, speed, etc.).

For everyone else, please say where you see it happening, and try in different places to see if it matters. I gave the example of trying below /desktopdir but C:\ is another example if you can't use /desktopdir for some reason. (Just be careful not to delete anything important!)


[/li]
[li]What if you also open an Explorer window, then delete in Opus; does Explorer notice the change?

opw62's earlier reply: "when I have Opus foldertree open and on top Windows Explorer and delete a folder in Explorer, then Opus is updated immediately"

But that wasn't what I asked. The deletion should be done in Opus. The question is whether Explorer sees the folder being deleted when you delete it from Opus.


[/li]
[li]New question: Does it only happen with lots of nested folders being delete?

opw62's video shows it happening with lots of nested folders being deleted, so I made sure I did the same thing when trying to reproduce the issue. Is doing this important to reproduce the problem, or does it also happen with empty folders, and/or where there's just one or two things in a folder?


[/li]
[li]New question: What files are in the folders being deleted?

opw62's video shows a few MB of files being deleted, from the progress dialog, but I can't see what they are. The file types are of particular interest. For example, if there are .exe files, archives or movie files, they can cause particular behaviours which may be relevant. I'd like to make my test as similar as possible by adding similar files to the folders I am deleting, in case it is important.

I have a hunch this is important, from an idea about what may be going wrong, but it is only a guess so far. I might be wrong but please do not ignore this question in particular..


[/li]
[li]New question: What does the file display look like? In particular, is it in flat-view mode, or doing anything which would cause sub-folders to be inspected in the background? (e.g. Calculating folder sizes automatically.)

The video shows the folder trees but crops out everything else. As much detail as possible is always useful.


[/li]
[li]New question: Are you deleting with or without the recycle bin?

opw62's video shows the recycle bin being used. Is it the same for everyone else?[/li][/ol]


The questions on their own, so they are easy to go through one-by-one:

[ol][li]If you open two separate windows showing the same folder, then delete the sub-folder from one of them, does the file display in both windows update? Or does only the window where you deleted the folder update, or only the other one, or is it sometimes either or both at random?

[/li]
[li]Does this happen in all folders, or only in a particular place in the tree? (e.g. Does it only happen on a particular drive, or only below the My Documents branch, or similar?)

[/li]
[li]What if you also open an Explorer window, then delete in Opus; does Explorer notice the change?

[/li]
[li]Does it only happen with lots of nested folders being delete?

[/li]
[li]Important: What files are in the folders being deleted?

[/li]
[li]What does the file display look like? In particular, is it in flat-view mode, or doing anything which would cause sub-folders to be inspected in the background? (e.g. Calculating folder sizes automatically.)

[/li]
[li]Are you deleting with or without the recycle bin?[/li][/ol]

If you open two separate windows showing the same folder, then delete the sub-folder from one of them, does the file display in both windows update? Or does only the window where you deleted the folder update, or only the other one, or is it sometimes either or both at random?

opw62 mentioned earlier that both folder trees failed to update update, but in the video it looks like one updates OK and the problem is only in the tree where the deletion was performed.

Only the folder tree where the folders were deleted nat not updating and getting the error

Maybe it's both sometimes and only one at other times?

For me it's always between the folder tree where the deletions were done (by tapping delete key in folder tree)

When it happens, is it always the tree where the delete was performed (and maybe the other tree as well sometimes)?

Yes--See above

What do other people see?

Is there a pattern to when it happens in both? For example, does it only happen in the other tree if it also happens to have the deleted folder selected, and never when another folder is selected?

Normally I can't tell because the only way to exit is to close the error window. In the past, I've alway just closed and reopened the lister so I can't tell you. If this cause I've left all three Windows open, and will try any testing use wish.

Does this happen in all folders, or only in a particular place in the tree? (e.g. Does it only happen on a particular drive, or only below the My Documents branch, or similar?)

I've probably had it happen 100-200 times in the past 7 years--I working in Opus 24/7/12 hrs-- :slight_smile:--some builds have definitely been worse than others. It has always has been "normal" paths like my screen shots.

Try other locations in the tree to see if the same happens there. Try different drives.
See above--never been drive directory related--except for my message earlier in the thread about what's sometime seems to spark it.

opw62's video shows it happening at the roof of what looks like a generic secondary drive. That's useful information. Trying on the C:\ drive may also be useful, to rule out anything particular about the drive (filesystem, speed, etc.).
My C drive is just an OS--don't delete much there-- :laughing: :laughing:

For everyone else, please say where you see it happening, and try in different places to see if it matters. I gave the example of trying below /desktopdir but C:\ is another example if you can't use /desktopdir for some reason. (Just be careful not to delete anything important!)
The windows are open and I will trying to leave them there if Jon/Leo want to me try anything

What if you also open an Explorer window, then delete in Opus; does Explorer notice the change?
See jpg-Explorer see the deletion.

opw62's earlier reply: "when I have Opus foldertree open and on top Windows Explorer and delete a folder in Explorer, then Opus is updated immediately"

But that wasn't what I asked. The deletion should be done in Opus. The question is whether Explorer sees the folder being deleted when you delete it from Opus.

New question: Does it only happen with lots of nested folders being delete?
As you can see in this case--No.

opw62's video shows it happening with lots of nested folders being deleted, so I made sure I did the same thing when trying to reproduce the issue. Is doing this important to reproduce the problem, or does it also happen with empty folders, and/or where there's just one or two things in a folder?

New question: What files are in the folders being deleted?
I was deleting folders in the tree with drivers extracts. I can replicate the folders easily--they were self-excrating driver files. I've attached one of the actual files.

opw62's video shows a few MB of files being deleted, from the progress dialog, but I can't see what they are. The file types are of particular interest. For example, if there are .exe files, archives or movie files, they can cause particular behaviours which may be relevant. I'd like to make my test as similar as possible by adding similar files to the folders I am deleting, in case it is important.

I have a hunch this is important, from an idea about what may be going wrong, but it is only a guess so far. I might be wrong but please do not ignore this question in particular..
See above.

New question: What does the file display look like? In particular, is it in flat-view mode, or doing anything which would cause sub-folders to be inspected in the background? (e.g. Calculating folder sizes automatically.)
No. Normal (at least for me)--dual listers with dual trees.

The video shows the folder trees but crops out everything else. As much detail as possible is always useful.

New question: Are you deleting with or without the recycle bin?
With--I've got delete to recycle bin whenever possible checked.

opw62's video shows the recycle bin being used. Is it the same for everyone else?

The questions on their own, so they are easy to go through one-by-one:

If you open two separate windows showing the same folder, then delete the sub-folder from one of them, does the file display in both windows update? Or does only the window where you deleted the folder update, or only the other one, or is it sometimes either or both at random?
The strange thing is the example is that the upper lister in both instances shows the two folders I deleted (asm104 and asmsata), but the bottom lister do not

Window with error


Explorer -- deleted directories not displayed


Other Opus lister open prior to error



example.zip (1.23 MB)

Update/correction--I had also deleted the Adobe folder. It has 2-3 sub-folders with pdf files. Can come close to replicating--it was a test copy when I was playing with buffer size / speed.

@leo, hopefully others then sfuller and me will also give some feedback.

btw: the 'test' folders I used they contain jpg files (small ones) for 95% or more.
a few pdf/html as well.

however, pls do understand that it is difficult to pinpoint the issue to jpg files.
the initial folders, source of the discussion, were totally different folders, with different content.
obviously I cannot just go on delete stuff I need :wink: so I used a testdrive with a bunch of folders.

have sent two files via wetransfer (they are too big for here).

Opusview

=

Opus Folder behaviour


C-Dive
I tried, but cud not reproduce the error on C-drive.

--

Now another thing of the folder tree not being updated, to make it even more confusing.

Within the foldertree left I moved a folder from Subfolder A to Subfolder B
Just dragged it to the other location. Normally it is gone from the original location, but the folder was there to stay.
I clicked on the destination subfolder, but still the 'ghost'folder remained visible.
F5 solved it.

=

I tried to reproduce, within testfolders I tried a dozen times or more. The tree was updated immediately.
So, I forgot about it. One off glitch.

Then I copied a three subfolders from partition F to my test-drive (normal HDD with a 2GB test partition)
1 folder was displayed in the respective subfolder, 2 were not.
Nice eh ..

as matter of fact, I could select the subfolder and in the right window panel rename the sub\sub-folders
to AB and HS. In the foldertree still nothing happened.

I hit F5, nothing happened initially and after - say - 10 seconds or so, the folders showed up.
Hopefully the mp4 shows what I mean.

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s528.photobucket.com/user/phwul/ ... d.mp4.html

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An additional remark.

This refresh F5 thing - my last line above.
Maybe it has something to do with it, I really wouldn't know, but it is like this.

If some folders donot show up in the folder tree (I tested, even after an hour they didn't show up...)
then, as said, I hit F5.

Now, with me, the entire tree goes up and down in a second.
(This may be normal, I wouldn't know)
Then I wait a couple of seconds, say 5-7 seconds or so
Then the subfolders are displayed in the foldertree.

This has been happening a number of times - so I thought it worthwhile to mention it here.

=

Ah!
Another intesting thing.

In the folder tree I selected a sub\subfolder containing 1 file only.
The one file is displayed in the right window panel.
I moved that one file to a different location, the right window panel obviously is empty.
In the foldertree the (empty) folder entirely disappears, whilst the right window panel is still pointing to that folder.

F5 as my previous post
tree goes up and down
empty folder is back again in the tree.

=

Many thanks to sfuller and opw62 for all the extra info. Great stuff, and much apprecaited!

We're still looking at this, but aren't ready to report back yet.

If anyone else wants to answer the 7 questions above, the more info we have the faster we'll be able to narrow down the common cause.

  1. If you open two separate windows showing the same folder, then delete the sub-folder from one of them, does the file display in both windows update? Or does only the window where you deleted the folder update, or only the other one, or is it sometimes either or both at random?
  • Sorry i don't know. I cannot reproduce this bug now, even with my old "method". :frowning:
  1. Does this happen in all folders, or only in a particular place in the tree? (e.g. Does it only happen on a particular drive, or only below the My Documents branch, or similar?)
  • all folders on my SSD
  1. What if you also open an Explorer window, then delete in Opus; does Explorer notice the change?
  • yes. Both windows are visible - Explorer's tree updated instantly!
  1. Does it only happen with lots of nested folders being delete?
  • lots of nested folders? I don't know. 1-2 folders for me (usually the deepest folders) in a complex folder tree (3-4 levels) with a lot of folders in the first folder (more than 5, usually 10-20+)
  1. Important: What files are in the folders being deleted?
  • txt, jpeg, png. OR empty folders - I move files from these folder and delete them after that... Then I click to the tree and ding! The error occurred! :frowning:
  1. What does the file display look like? In particular, is it in flat-view mode, or doing anything which would cause sub-folders to be inspected in the background? (e.g. Calculating folder sizes automatically.)
  • normal folder three with a visual styles, all affected folders expanded, full row selected, and highlighted path.
  1. Are you deleting with or without the recycle bin?
  • with recycle bin, with a DEL key

Btw, when this bug happens, then SOMETIMES the tree is not updated even after forced F5 (Go REFRESH=all).
I think this happens after a long period of idle (more than 20-30 mins) or after a long work session. But I'm not sure!

If you're seeing this issue, can you tell us if you are using volume mount points?

i.e. If you have drives mounted as folders below other drives.

That may be a factor in what's happening. If so we have a fix on the way.

No volume mount points here, though I did have favorites pointing to folders on different drives. The same is true for my libraries.

Exactly the same with me, with possibly one exception: libraries.

They include both internal and external (USB)drives.
However the external drives are nót connected in 90% of the time, but are still listed in the foldertree,
rightfully so.

I am not sure though if the below is the correct behaviour, it goes like this:

  • select any folder from an internal drive in the folder tree (right window panel displays the contents)
  • now select an external drive from the library in the folder tree, the right window panel still shows the previous contents, i.e. that of the internal drive, whereas I guess it should be empty.

=

That seems like a separate issue. I don't think it makes sense to have Libraries pointing at drives that don't exist.

In addition to the fact that a Folder remains in the tree after deletion I can add the following phenomena.
After copying a folder from one drive to certain folder on another drive via drag and drop from within the folder tree the new folder does not show up in the new folder tree until I press F5. Strangely both things (no update on delete and after copy) only happen in a certain folder. The same procedure in other folders work with automatic refresh.

That may be an unrelated issue. This issue is only about folders staying in the tree when deleted, probably only happening when they are the active folder/tab in at least one window.

For your issue, please see the Changes to folders are not always detected FAQ. If you want to, please create a separate thread for your problem and provide the debub information that the FAQ talks about + any other details about what might be special about the folder where you're seeing it vs other folders.

Thank you, maybe it was not clear in my first post, I also have the issue of the "Deleted Folder Name remains in Folder Tree Pane".
But only with certain folders, other folders on the same drive are strangely not affected.