Inconsistent Management of Folder Settings

Help & Support
1

I am new to the Opus Directory and like many of the features, but management of folder listing is driving me nuts.

I know about the little locker in the right corner, but that is not option for the following examples.

Here are some examples of inconsistent operation.

All primary settings have been done in ‘Details’ view.

  1. Change width of a column and change to another folder, and the setting is lost. If I want to keep that change, I have to right click the column and select More…, ‘Save the current format for all folders’, and get a confusing dialog.

  2. Change a folder to another Content Type because the listing is not correct, and when getting back to the folder nothing has changed.

  3. Add a column to a folder where Content Type is None, and changes to other folders where Content Type is None, and the column is still showing. Change to a folder where Content Type is Images, and the column is not shown, change back to the first folder, and the column is still showing. Now change to the image folder again and changes Content Type to None, and the column is not shown, and change back to the first folder, and the column is gone!

  4. Change Content Type from None to Image and change to another folder that also is of type None, and the folder is shown with the Image setting – but the Content Type says None. Change to a folder with Content Type other than None, and the Content Type shows e.g. Documents and the setting for Documents is used.
    Change back to the first folder which still shows as Image and Content Type as None, select None and setting is restored to the original setting.

  5. Create a new folder and Content Type shows None, but it is an unknown setting, now set Content Type to None and the setting is correct.

I find the above behavior unacceptable and the very complicated ‘Folder Format’ settings are very hard to be familiar with. The way Opus is working, when everything is working correct, is excellent, but there need to an easier way to do it.

I am still considering changing to Opus, because it is so complicated and annoying to configure the folder settings.

2

Have you read this FAQ article? It explains when and why formats change (and when they don't), which can appear a bit random at first but generally does make sense once you know what's going on and have configured things as you want them.

3

I fully understand the way Content Type automatically selects the various views, but one have to read FAQ to understand it.

However if you want to change the Content Type for a specific folder, where the automatic selection is not correct, you are in big trouble.
If you try the examples above, I fell sure you will agree that the way it is working is inconsistent.

4

I have tried to come up with a better way for configuration and use of the Content Type.

For details see the attached picture (click to enhance).

Two buttons are added to the default PathBar.
A Setup button to open the Content Type Setup dialog.
An Enable/Disable button.

To alter the way Content Type is working, an overlaid modeless dialog is opened with the Setup button. The dialog is somewhat similar to the Folder Format in Preferences.

When moving around folders in the Lister with the Setup dialog open, the dialog will show the according Content Type automatically in the list box, and if something is changed in the Lister viewing, the dialog will record it and indicate that the corresponding Content Type view has been changed.

To alter the file types that define the automatic Content Type selection, the File Types button is used.

To accept the changes, close the dialog with the Save button, and it is permanently saved. (It should be possible to import/export the settings)

If the Content Type is changed for a specific folder in the PathBar, the type for that folder (and only that) is saved permanently - also if the Setup dialog is not active.

To browse around folders with the same view setting, disable the Content Type by the Enable/Disable button, and the Lister will keep the view selected in the View menu for all folders, until the Content Type is enabled again.

With the suggested operation, I find it consistent and easy to understand, and one does not have to read the manual to understand and learn the use of Content Types.

1aad05f864e43bd40b1d23d5dc774200c2381c01.png679×534 33.6 KB

5

I think you are confusing Content Types and normal Folder Formats.

Folder Formats can be saved for types of directories (e.g. Local Drives, Network Drives) and also for specific folders (e.g. C:, My Pictures, etc.)

Content Types are folder formats that are automatically applied to any folder (which doesn't have a specific folder format saved for its path) which have lots of files of a given type (e.g. image files).

If you want your changes to stick for a given folder, or type of folder (e.g. Network Drive, etc.), you shouldn't be changing the Content Types, unless you know that folder will always contain the right file types to trigger the Content Type to be used.

If you enter a folder and the Content Type field on the toolbar shows "" then Content Types are not affecting that folder.

If the Content Types stuff is confusing things by changing formats when you don't want it to then you can disable content type detection either by turning off all the Content Type items under Preferences / Folders / Folder Formats or by unchecking Preferences / Folders / Options: Enable Folder Content Type detection.

(For people who don't have the Content Type field showing, you can get it via the Customize dialog. Drag the item from the View category called Current Content Type to your toolbar. This will show you which content type (if any) is being used at all times. (You can also manually select a content type via the drop-down.))

6

>If the Content Types stuff is confusing things by changing formats when you don't want it to then you can disable content type detection.

No way, Content Type is a major reason I consider using Opus exclusive.

However at some occasion, I would like to disable the Automatic Content Type momentary – by a button at the toolbar.

>I think you are confusing Content Types and normal Folder Formats.

Here is how I understand it.

When Content Type is active, Opus scans the files in the selected folder, and selects a matching Content Type, according to the Settings->Preferences->Folders->Folder Formats and Settings->File Types.
If no proper match is found, the Default Format is used – as I understand.

If you want to save a setting for a specific folder, you can save the setting for that folder, and it will show up in the same Preferences setup as Folder Formats. Folder Formats settings have precedence of the Automatic Content Type selection.

Maybe I shall call the Automatic Content Type selection for Automatic View Selection alias AVS.

>If you enter a folder and the Content Type field on the toolbar shows "" then Content Types are not affecting that folder.

But a ‘Default Format’ is selected, where I can make changes – or what?

>If you want your changes to stick for a given folder, you shouldn't be changing the Content Types, unless you know that folder will always contain the right file types to trigger the Content Type to be used.

I do not understand that.

What I want is to permanently lock the behavior of the AVS for a single specific folder, as it is not always the AVS kicks in with the right selection.

If you change a Content Type to or another type, move to another folder and back again the AVS kicks in, so you have to change it every time you enter that folder - refer example 2 in my first post.

If you change from to a Content Type Format, then you are I real trouble - refer example 4.

If you try to save the changed Content Type with ‘Save – For This Folder’ in the Folder Setup dialog, another inconsistent behavior turns up.

  1. Go to a folder where the AVS is , change it to and the Default listing is used (Details as view listing).
    Save the setting for this folder in the Folder Setup dialog.
    Move to another folder and back again, and the Content Type is , still in the Details view, but columns have changed to the format.

  2. Open the Folder Formats in Preferences, remove the saved folder from the Folder Formats list and click OK, and nothing happens. Open the dialog again, remove the saved folder, click Apply and OK, and AVS again kicks in with the type for that folder.

7

You can select from the Content Type drop-down to turn off the system for the current lister. Select another item from the drop-down to turn it back on.

Yup, that's correct.

[quote]>If you enter a folder and the Content Type field on the toolbar shows "" then Content Types are not affecting that folder.

But a ‘Default Format’ is selected, where I can make changes – or what?[/quote]
Opus will be using one of the formats listed under Default Formats, e.g. Local Drives or Network Drives or ZIP.

Or it may be showing a combination of formats (see * below).

You can't do this exactly. As in, you cannot say that C:\MyFolder will always use the Images format, but you can copy the Images format to C:\MyFolder. (The difference being that if the Images format is changed later then C:\MyFolder will not be affected.)

When you select a Content Type format from the drop-down it is only a temporary selection and doesn't get saved for that folder.

The way you're trying to save the format sounds right (but see * below): Go to C:\MyFolder, switch to Images in the drop-down, then go to Folder Options and Save: For This Folder.

Another way to do this is via Preferences / Folders / Folder Formats where you can right-click a format, copy it, then paste it over another format (e.g. one added for a particular folder).

(*) Go to Preferences, edit the format saved for the specific folder and click to the Options tab. You'll see a checkbox (which isn't there in the Folder Options dialog) called Include columns from other matching formats. That is on by default and means that while that format will be used for the folder, any columns added by other formats which match the folder (which includes Content Type formats) will also be added to the end.

If you don't know that option is there it can be pretty confusing because columns seem to appear out of nowhere, and the option isn't shown in Folder Options so you have to know to look for it in Preferences.

(There are good reasons for the differences between the Folder Options and Preferences dialogs but there are also ways to reduce the confusion they cause and I've filed a feature request to GPSoft with some suggestions.)

One more thing, in case you haven't seen it: If you edit a Content Type format via Preferences (only place you can edit them) then on the Options tab you'll find a Content threshold setting. This specifies the percentage of files, out of all the files in the folder, which have to match the filetype group (e.g. Images) for the Content Type to be used.

If you reduce the threshold to a low number then the Content Type will be more likely to be applied to your folder, which might get you what you want. (But if you don't want the Content Type kicking in for other folders with only a few images in them then it won't be a good idea.)

8

>You can select from the Content Type drop-down to turn off the system for the current lister. Select another item from the drop-down to turn it back on

I know that, but it can lead to a lot of confusion, if you do not know how Content Type is working deep down to the bottom.
When you enable it again, you might select a proper type for the current folder, but when you get back to that folder, the AVS kicks in and might change to another type.
If you are new to Opus, like I was, you might think “what the heck is going on here”. But of course, I now know what is going on, after a lot of experimental, reading the manual and browsing this forum.

>You'll see a checkbox (which isn't there in the Folder Options dialog) called Include columns from other matching formats.

That was new to me, so I still do not know all the details of Content Type.

>There are good reasons for the differences between the Folder Options and Preferences dialogs but there are also ways to reduce the confusion they cause and I've filed a feature request to GPSoft with some suggestions.

As you have seen from my posts, I find there is a lot of confusion around Automatic Content Type listing, and the reason I came up with a suggestion, that is straight forward and easy to use and understand.
I have not yet figured out, why it has to be so complicated, but believe it has something to do with a lot of improvements to a basic idea, that was not well thought out from the beginning.

I would love to see (yet another) checkbox, where I can choose the suggested setup, and get rid of the three different located dialog boxes, that are required to maintain the current Content Type selection.

As a last note, I can tell, I also have tried to use ‘File Collection’ to have my project files, that are spread throughout various folders and drives, in a simple folder structure format, where I easily can browse around finding the required project file.
However, the File Collection is as inconsistent as the Content Type, so I have given up getting it to work. Very sad, because I am sure, I would have loved Opus, if I could have it working.

9

Content Type

I don't think Content Type is complicated.[ul][li]When you change folders Opus looks at what kind of files are in the new folder and may dynamically select a Content Type format and apply it to the view.[/li]
[li]The drop-down shows which Content Type (if any) has been applied to the view.[/li]
[li]You can use the drop-down to manually and temporarily change to one of the Content Type formats.[/li][/ul]That's all there is to it and all of it can be turned off if you don't like how it works.

Selecting something from the drop-down does not save anything anywhere; it just changes the current view to use that format. The next time you change folders the usual thing happens where Opus looks at the files in the folder and selects a Content Type.

If you want to configure a certain folder to look a certain way then you have to save a Folder Format that is tied to the folder's path. Inherited columns aside, the Content Type stuff then has no relevance to that folder.

File Collections

What sort of things were inconsistent? For what you're doing a heirarchy of normal shortcut files is probably just as good.

10

....Which isn't to say your suggestion is a bad idea or that there isn't room for improvement. In fact, as I type this, we are having a chat on IRC about how things could work along the lines of what you're talking about.

I just think the complexity you're seeing is because Opus doesn't (currently) behave how you think it should, rather than because something complex is happening, if you see what I mean.

Your comments are definitely useful as they're making us think about things that we're very used to from different points of view.

11

>I don't think Content Type is complicated. - What sort of things were inconsistent?

You are absolutely right if you see it from your point of view, but if you flip the coin and see it from the point of view I have mentioned, it is completely different.
I think a major problem is, that Opus allows changing the Content Type for a folder, and depending on the Automatic Content Type for that folder, the behavior differs. If it wasn’t possible to change the Content Type for a folder, but only disabling the Automatic Content Type selection, most of the confusion would be eliminated.

But that’s not the way I would like to see it working!

Also when you make various changes to the listing on the fly, then in some situations it is remembered and in others it is not – and sometimes Opus lives its own life. When you are new to Opus, that can be quite confusing. As I read other topics, I am not the only one having problems with that.

Anyway, thanks for at good discussion.

12

I can't think of any cases where changes you make on the fly are remembered permanently.

13

Example 3 and 4, sorting and view selection when Content Type is are what I can think of right now.

14

These changes apply to the current Lister, but none of them are permanent changes.

15

my two cents:

A bit of the confusion here seems to be a result of some apparent minor bugs colliding with his attempt to force content type detection into something it is not.

For instance "AVS"? You're making use of a made up acronym to describe the automatic selection of a feature that is supposed to be automatic anyway... I agree that alot of this would not have seemed as confusing if you were NOT given the ability to manually change the content type format being used on the fly; but reading this thread 'after' the fact, I'm curious about one thing... alot of the apparent 'conflicting' behaviour seems to stem from this root problem:

a) This is simply NOT what content type detection is for... it's meant to be variable and automatic based on content rules YOU supply. To 'permanently lock' a folder view - well like Nudel said, hard code a folder format specifically for that folder, or create a 'Style' with the view you want and enable THAT on the fly instead of messing with the content type... but FAR more importantly:

b) What do you mean by content type selection doesn't always select the right view? The only case I've seen you mention of this was #4 in your list of examples... which seems like a bug to me, but still only seems to happen AFTER manually messing with the content type selection.

16

[quote]4. Change Content Type from None to Image and change to another folder that also is of type None, and the folder is shown with the Image setting – but the Content Type says None. Change to a folder with Content Type other than None, and the Content Type shows e.g. Documents and the setting for Documents is used.
Change back to the first folder which still shows as Image and Content Type as None, select None and setting is restored to the original setting. [/quote]

This behavior is directly related to an issue which I reported to GP Software. I need to update the details of that issue to include these trigger events, plus some more observations of my own.

17

Steje, I find you are a little harsh on me here.

When I first put my hand on Opus, I noticed the Content Type dropdown list, and found it very interesting to easily select predefined views - tried it out, but it worked different from what I have expected.
Went to the Opus help, but not much help here, so I tried it out on my own, and ran into the strange behavior as described earlier. It is first after the forum posts, I fully understand what Content Type is doing.

If the help had said something like this, I wouldn’t have complained.
The Content Type feature is used for automatic view selection following rules according to file types in the folder. If the Automatic Content Type view selection is not working to your preference, it should be disabled.

This happens many times to me.
I have a lot of project folders, and have made a Develop Content Type, that is to be used for these folders.
However, in most cases the Content Type kicks in the Image view, because there are more image files than project files.
It is very annoying manually to switch the Content Type every time I enter a project folder – and I am not keen of using Folder Saving for each of these folders.
Also folders used for video editing, the Content Type usually switches to Movies, despite I want a detailed view.

18

Now that I have been using Opus for some month, I still find Content Type could be improved a lot. Also, I have been reading other posts and found a way, I believe would make Opus much better and easier to use and understand.

The suggestion requires a toolbar with the following controls.

  • Dropdown list of Saved View Styles
  • Dropdown list of Saved Priority Sort
  • Dropdown list of Saved Filters
  • Disable/Lock button
  • Reset button
  • Setup button.

The Saved View Styles is somewhat similar to Content Type and the prior suggestion. View Styles can be used with automation (like Content Types) or without (no files types specified).
When changing folders, the selection is remembered and will be used when reentered.
Column and similar on-the-fly changes are not remembered, and will reset on folder change.

The Sort and Filter styles are similar to saved View styles, and remembered for each folder. It should be possible to specify a default Sort and Filter style in each View style.

The Disable/Lock is used to lock the current selected styles and other possible changes, and used throughout to browse folders with the same setting. It has highest priority, and any change will not be remembered when unlocked.

The Reset button will reset a changed selection (will indicate that changes have been made to a folder with automation)

The Setup button is used to create or alter the various styles in an easy way. It is an overlaid modeless dialog as described earlier, and will eliminate the use of the Preferences dialog. When altering a style, it will be reflected on all folders that use the style.

I have been thinking of a ‘No Remember’ addition to the Disable/Lock button, but find it is not to be used much, because of the other possibilities.

19

jorgensen... no time to reply in detail right now, just wanted to say I meant no offense. I wasn't being harsh at all, just capitaled a few words for emphasis was all. There were a few distinct parts of this conversation I chose to comment on and will reply a bit later on to explain my thoughts...