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Copying Workstation files to NAS Drive (UAC) issue


#1

Hey Guys,

I have a issue at times when copy or cut to move files from my workstation desktop to my Nas drive I get a error as shown in the screen shot. I have tried to also allow UAC on for 5 minutes still the same error occurs.


This doesn't aways happen from time to time any thoughts? BTW even when using the cut command from opus the file remains in the original location as well as the new location.

Cheers, :slight_smile:


#2

Access denied can mean any of the following (and probably some more that I haven't thought of):
[ul][li] The file is in use (e.g. for an exe, if the exe is running as a program then you cannot move/delete/replace it; or an anti-virus scanner may have the file open while scanning it, or some other tool has the file open to read data out of it; that can include Opus sometimes as Opus looks inside files to display information about them).[/li]
[li] You don't have permission to read the source file.[/li]
[li] You don't have permission to write to the destination file.[/li]
[li] If moving the file, you don't have permission to delete the source file after it has been copied.[/li][/ul]

Please narrow it down by checking:

[ul][li] Does the same thing work if you use Windows Explorer instead of Opus?[/li]
[li] Does it only happen when moving or also when copying?[/li]
[li] Does it only happen with certain files?[/li]
[li] Does it only happen with certain types of files (e.g. EXE files)? (If so it's probably a virus scanner in the middle of scanning them.)[/li]
[li] Does it only happen when copying to or from certain folders?[/li][/ul]


#3

[quote]Access denied can mean any of the following (and probably some more that I haven't thought of):

The file is in use (e.g. for an exe, if the exe is running as a program then you cannot move/delete/replace it; or an anti-virus scanner may have the file open while scanning it, or some other tool has the file open to read data out of it; that can include Opus sometimes as Opus looks inside files to display information about them).
You don't have permission to read the source file.
You don't have permission to write to the destination file.
If moving the file, you don't have permission to delete the source file after it has been copied.[/quote]

Leo I have access to all of these.

[quote]Please narrow it down by checking:
[/quote]
[quote]Does the same thing work if you use Windows Explorer instead of Opus?[/quote] Yes it works in Windows Explorer and Teracopy as well.

[quote]Does it only happen when moving or also when copying?[/quote] It seems to only happen when moving files.

[quote]Does it only happen with certain files?[/quote] So far for me .exe and rar files.

[quote]Does it only happen with certain types of files (e.g. EXE files)? (If so it's probably a virus scanner in the middle of scanning them.)
[/quote]
Leo I have even turned off the virus scanner and firewall still the same error occurs.

[quote]Does it only happen when copying to or from certain folders?[/quote] No and it only seems when moving but will let you know if it occurs when copying.

Cheers, :slight_smile:


#4

It could be a problem on the source not the destination.
I had a problem at work once where I did have write permissions on the destination folder but no delete permissions on the source. Apparently Windows does a copy and then a delete when moving files and the error occurred on the delete part.
I saw your source was a user folder on your C drive. Are you also logged in as that user, maybe the file ownership is set to a different user than the one you are logged in as...


#5

[quote="rkoegler"]It could be a problem on the source not the destination.
I had a problem at work once where I did have write permissions on the destination folder but no delete permissions on the source. Apparently Windows does a copy and then a delete when moving files and the error occurred on the delete part.
I saw your source was a user folder on your C drive. Are you also logged in as that user, maybe the file ownership is set to a different user than the one you are logged in as...[/quote]

Hi,

Thank you for your feedback.

I'm logged in as Administrator plus I don't have a problem with Windows Explorer or Teracopy moving the files the same way as DOpus.

Cheers, :slight_smile:


#6

I had a similar problem with my NAS (Synology), but copying/moving also didn't work with Explorer. The problem was NAS couldn't rename the temp file after operation. Renaming the files solved it (alltough the filenames didn't include any wrong chars or rights before), but that was no solution for me. So I reinstalled the NAS-drive and after the prob was gone.


#7

Since the problem here seems to be affecting (large?) installer-exe and rar-archive files, that strongly suggests an anti-virus scanner is holding them open while it inspects them. (Or some other tool that may be triggered by Opus opening those files. It could be something like an archive tool that installs a shell extension, but I'd be surprised if that spent long looking at the files.)

I realise you've already tried disabling the virus scanner, but something like thay still seems the most likely cause.

If it is a virus scanner, there's probably going to be high CPU usage while it goes on, and Process Explorer could identify the process/thread/DLL causing the usage in that case. (The general troubleshooting FAQ links to a guide on how to investigate that.) Process Monitor should also show the file being accessed (by both the file-copy operation and something else, if the file is in use) , and the Stack Trace feature in that would identify the DLL causing that access.


#8

[quote="leo"]Since the problem here seems to be affecting (large?) installer-exe and rar-archive files, that strongly suggests an anti-virus scanner is holding them open while it inspects them. (Or some other tool that may be triggered by Opus opening those files. It could be something like an archive tool that installs a shell extension, but I'd be surprised if that spent long looking at the files.)

I realise you've already tried disabling the virus scanner, but something like thay still seems the most likely cause.[/quote]

Hi Leo,

I have completely removed the AV software and tested again same thing happened.

I don't mind trying process explorer and process monitor to see what we can get out of it but need some help on how to use it.

Cheers, :slight_smile:


#9

Easiest thing to do is:

  • Reboot (to ensure nothing has the file open before starting).
  • Run Process Monitor.
  • Set Process Monitor to log file-system activity only (i.e. turn off all but one of the rightmost icons on its toolbar).
  • Trigger the problem and make a note of the file that is in use.
  • Save the Process Monitor log (File -> Save).
  • Send the log + name of the file in use to me and I'll take a look.

(If you want to look yourself, filter the events to only show ones relating to that filename, then open properties on the events and look at the Stack window for them to see which DLLs are involved.)


#10

Hey Leo,

Can you point me in the right direction where these settings are.

Cheers,


#11

#12

[quote="jon"][quote](i.e. turn off all but one of the rightmost icons on its toolbar)[/quote][/quote] Got it.

I have saved both .CSV & .PML files which one is best and what email should I send it too.

BTW thank you for your help guys.

Cheers,
Gino


#13

PML is best. The CSV won't have the stack data.

Put it in a zip & send it to me via the forum's private message facility.


#14

[quote="leo"]PML is best. The CSV won't have the stack data.

Put it in a zip & send it to me via the forum's private message facility.[/quote] See your PM thank you.


#15

Hi Gino,

The log only has profiling events turned on. This is the toolbar icon that needs to be turned on in Process Monitor:


It matters which one is on as they all control different things. Sorry if my instructions before were a bit vague.


#16

I've spent several hours analysing the log file you sent and looking into some ideas. It's impossible to say if any of these theories are definitely the answer but they all seem worth a try:

[ol][li]After seeing the problem, run Process Explorer (run it as Administrator, i.e. via UAC), push Ctrl+F and then paste the name of the file in. Does it list any processes as having the file open?

[/li]
[li]In Opus, turn off Preferences / File Operations / Copy Attributes / Copy metadata (comments, keywords, etc), then fully exit & restart Opus.

(Don't just close all the Opus windows, that isn't enough to exit the program by default. Make sure you select the Exit option, and that dopus.exe is no longer listed in the task manager Process list if you are unsure. Reboot if you are really not sure.)

[/li]
[li]The Tabbles software you have seems suspect to me, since it installs a shell extension written in .Net (which is a bad idea), and that extension is loaded near a possibly (though not definitely) suspect part of the log.

Get the latest version of ShellExView and use it to disable anything to do with Tabbles, then fully exit & restart Opus and try again.

[/li]
[li]If it still happens, go back to ShellExView, scroll right until you see the "Microsoft" column, then click so the list is sorted by that column. Select all of the non-Microsoft extensions, and disable them all -- except for the Directory Opus ones -- then fully exit & restart Opus and try again.

[/li]
[li]Go back to ShellExView and re-enable everything so things are back how they started.

[/li]
[li] You've got all three of MalwareBytes, LavaSoft Ad-Aware, and SuperAntiSpyware installed. Did you disable all three of them when you tried before? It still seems very suspicious that this is happening on two filetypes that malware scanners will often spend a long time inspecting for large-sized files.

[/li]
[li] The Acronis disk monitor / snapshot tool may be related. Just a hunch, though. If it's easy to disable it, give it a try. If not, don't worry about it.

[/li]
[li]From the log, it looks like Windows may be "prefetching" the file. Before Opus even opens it, the special "System" process appears to have the file open. As Opus reads the file, the System process is as well, via code to do with prefetching. It never seems to close the file, either.

This could be normal, and a red herring. Perhaps Windows Vista always does this when buffering large files and I just haven't noticed it before. It seems odd to me, though, and AFAIK the OS buffering a file on behalf of dopus.exe would still generate log entries that only show dopus.exe reading the file, not the System process reading it...

If it is prefetching then Windows has decided this .exe file is one you are likely to use and is preemptively loading the whole thing into memory (or trying to), which may be locking the file.

If you want to try disabling prefetching to test this theory, you'll need to use RegEdit. Go to:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management\PrefetchParameters

and change EnablePrefetcher from 3 (three) to 0 (zero), then reboot.

Remember to change it back to 3 and reboot again after testing, as disabling prefetching may reduce performance.

[/li]
[li]If you've got anything setup to automatically sync to/from network drives (e.g. Offline Folders), or anything weird like you've setup symbolic links from a directory on your C:\ drive to point to a network share, then that is worth mentioning.[/li][/ol]

If none of that helps then I'm a bit stumped, to be honest.


#17

Just to add to the long list above, it would also make sense to test the same thing in Explorer every so often, just to make sure that it really is only Opus that is having the problem. Since the problem is intermittent it may affect both programs.


#18

[quote="leo"]I've spent several hours analysing the log file you sent and looking into some ideas. It's impossible to say if any of these theories are definitely the answer but they all seem worth a try:[/quote] First thought was wow and then WOW thank you very much for giving your time to look into this.

[quote="leo"]After seeing the problem, run Process Explorer (run it as Administrator, i.e. via UAC), push Ctrl+F and then paste the name of the file in. Does it list any processes as having the file open?[/quote] I already have Process Explorer running when windows boots up replacing Windows Task Manager so do I still run it as Administrator or turn it on while its running.

[quote="leo"]In Opus, turn off Preferences / File Operations / Copy Attributes / Copy metadata (comments, keywords, etc), then fully exit & restart Opus.

(Don't just close all the Opus windows, that isn't enough to exit the program by default. Make sure you select the Exit option, and that dopus.exe is no longer listed in the task manager Process list if you are unsure. Reboot if you are really not sure.)[/quote]

No problem that should be straight forward and I can still kill the process via Process Explorer. Should I leave this setting in DOpus or adjust it back once I have finished testing the file again.

[quote="leo"]The Tabbles software you have seems suspect to me, since it installs a shell extension written in .Net (which is a bad idea), and that extension is loaded near a possibly (though not definitely) suspect part of the log.[/quote] I can remove this software for this purpose then install it later on.

[quote="leo"]Get the latest version of ShellExView and use it to disable anything to do with Tabbles, then fully exit & restart Opus and try again.[/quote] Will do.

[quote="leo"]If it still happens, go back to ShellExView, scroll right until you see the "Microsoft" column, then click so the list is sorted by that column. Select all of the non-Microsoft extensions, and disable them all -- except for the Directory Opus ones -- then fully exit & restart Opus and try again.[/quote] Ok.

[quote="leo"]Go back to ShellExView and re-enable everything so things are back how they started.[/quote] No problems.

[quote="leo"]ou've got all three of MalwareBytes, LavaSoft Ad-Aware, and SuperAntiSpyware installed. Did you disable all three of them when you tried before? It still seems very suspicious that this is happening on two filetypes that malware scanners will often spend a long time inspecting for large-sized files.

The Acronis disk monitor / snapshot tool may be related. Just a hunch, though. If it's easy to disable it, give it a try. If not, don't worry about it.[/quote]
I can remove all of these then reinstall them later on.

[quote="leo"]From the log, it looks like Windows may be "prefetching" the file. Before Opus even opens it, the special "System" process appears to have the file open. As Opus reads the file, the System process is as well, via code to do with prefetching. It never seems to close the file, either.

This could be normal, and a red herring. Perhaps Windows Vista always does this when buffering large files and I just haven't noticed it before. It seems odd to me, though, and AFAIK the OS buffering a file on behalf of dopus.exe would still generate log entries that only show dopus.exe reading the file, not the System process reading it...

If it is prefetching then Windows has decided this .exe file is one you are likely to use and is preemptively loading the whole thing into memory (or trying to), which may be locking the file.

If you want to try disabling prefetching to test this theory, you'll need to use RegEdit. Go to:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management\PrefetchParameters

and change EnablePrefetcher from 3 (three) to 0 (zero), then reboot.

Remember to change it back to 3 and reboot again after testing, as disabling prefetching may reduce performance.[/quote] I don't really like touching registry But leave this as a last option.

I don't have anything sync the only thing I has setup is a custom folder in DOpus from the toolbar but only in the last few days I have done this.

Cheers,

Gino :slight_smile:


#19

[quote="leo"]Just to add to the long list above, it would also make sense to test the same thing in Explorer every so often, just to make sure that it really is only Opus that is having the problem. Since the problem is intermittent it may affect both programs.[/quote] Will do also I have test the same thing with small files under 20mb and the same error but not on all of them.

Cheers,


#20

Exit Process Explorer, then start it again as Admin. If it isn't running as Admin then it won't be able to provide information about the System process, which looks like it may be involved.

No problem that should be straight forward and I can still kill the process via Process Explorer.[/quote]

There's no need to kill dopus.exe; just tell it to exit as per the FAQ I linked. But it is worth then checking in Process Explorer that it really has exited. dopus.exe should go away. Don't worry about dopusrt.exe, though; that can stay running.

You might as well leave Copy metadata turned off for all the tests. Once you are done testing you can turn it on (if you want).