DO11: Alternative progress-bar

First: I don't know how the progress-bar works in detail, because when I first saw that it uses a complete line, I deactivated it. :slight_smile:

But that made me think about another solution, which could look like this:

  1. Size of progress-bar can be set like spacer.
  2. Jobs-pulldown shows all running copy-dialogues in a menu and when clicking on one it opens the window. Within icon all running jobs are counted.
  3. When using small icons in toolbar the progress-bars could be smaller or only a single bar will be shown.
  4. No waste of space. On higher resolutions you normally have enough space on the left in a toolbar and this could be used for the bar. Also you can place it where you want and choose the size you want.

Please note that I didn't take all aspects into consideration. Same applies to the design.

The information shown below the bar could be customizable by variables. For example "Time: {time_past}/{time_remaining} Files: {files_number} Size: {MB_copied}/{MB_left}".

As said, just an idea.

We got a brand new progress bar already. I don't think, it makes much sense to suggest a completely different one.

But before nobody asked how to implement it and nobody is forced to realize it in DO11 or at all in the way I suggested.

FWIW, there were at least a couple of long & detailed discussions here about how to implement it.

Being able to move the jobs into a toolbar is an idea with some merit, although it also has a bunch of problems that would need to be worked out (like what to do if there's no space) and it'd require a lot of programming work.

It's something we may look at in the future.

FWIW, we're so busy just reading all the feedback right now that it's not the best time for this kind of feedback as it's more likely to get forgotten/lost than if you suggest it later on when the dust has settled and we're looking for ideas for the version after 11.0.

But it would represent a duplicate solution. The advantage of the present approach is, in my opinion, that it's independent of standard toolbars, which tend
to get customized by the users, so things might get tight. Your approach would take up screen estate from the basic toolbar, so other user would maybe disagree. Difficult to say.
I agree in one point with you, that the number of pending jobs could be displayed directly. That's a good idea. I think, that the new jobs bar isn't done yet, anyway.

My suggestion would be, that we could set an own time out, after the jobs are done (maybe in the miscelanneous settings). To my liking it's a tad too long.
I would set it to maybe one second, or even try out to turn it off completely (value=0).

@Leo: I didn't notice/read every thread in the past months here.

@abr: The main (visual) parts of DO are the lister, the statusbar and the toolbars. So it is obvious to integrate new features like progressbar into a toolbar.

IMO using a complete line which space is unused for 80% of the time is worth a discussion. The argument that toolbars are customizable is obsolute, because you can put the bar into a default toolbar, restore it, turn it on/off and at least the power of DO is customization.

Well, I just want to share my ideas and since the release of the beta I spent some time thinking about some enhancements (like the conditional buttons). What GP will use or not is not my decision, but the progressbar in its current form is unusable for me (while other new features are great!).

For what my opinion is worth I agree with that.

If you set it to auto-hide when no operations are running then it'll take up zero space most of the time.

You also have the option of turning it off, and minimizing progress dialogs, so you get the progress display on the taskbar without a pop-up or any space being used in the lister.

Being able to put the bar into a toolbar could be a good addition in the future. We're not ruling it out.

What about an option to make the progress bar optionally floating, like we can do already with many toolbars? That way everyone could place it conveniently. But then it would be
necessary, if we could set our own size, similar to Sasa's design. So anytime, a job would be started, we'd have that floating progress bar popping up, detached from the lister.

I don't think that would be good. The main complaints from before were that the progress dialog was an extra window that got in the way (a floating jobs bar would do the same), and that it had annoying alt-tab behaviour (which a floating bar would also need to have unless someone was OK with it getting lost behind the lister or other windows).

Ok, i wasn't aware, that a floating bar also would trigger the alt-tab thing. & i know, as i was one of the users complaining about that. :wink:
I see, that it is quite tricky to find the right way for everyone.

@Jon and Leo, please don't take this as ungrateful, but in the face of some of your recent comments about the timing of some of the users feedback - I can't help but point out that you guys are generally tight-lipped about what you're actually planning. Sure, there are always discussions going on about how users think something could be accomplished. But to Sasa's point, it's not as though we had many details from you to consider and provide feedback on any time "before" the Beta was made available...

I think most ppl are probably pretty thrilled with most of what you've brought to the table in v11, so I hope you're not too disillusioned by any feedback that seems unappreciative. Many of the hardcore users get kind of passionate about their views and you know as well as any that you can't please everyone all of the time.

Case in point, for this bit here about the progress indicators... I'm kind of surprised more ppl aren't more disturbed by the ongoing trend (starting with the change to navlock notification in v10) of new features that cause the lister (really the file display) to visually shift around. I guess I'm just a lot more sensitive to it than others are but I find it enormously visually distracting and (sadly) will turn off every new feature that uses this approach :frowning:. So while I completely agree with the rationale driving Sasa to ask for an alternative approach, personally; I would be much more a fan of a status bar based control that would give us the exact same visualization you're already popping up on the separate jobs bar. The status bar is the lister element with the most available space in the default config (though TBH, it's currently just a bit too narrow to fit the current height of the progress box you've got in the jobs bar) and I'm perfectly content with the functionality and info being provided in that progress box - just not in a popup bar :slight_smile:.

That's fine. All we're saying is that now isn't a good time to give feedback about largely re-working things that people had already agreed on in discussions over the past few years. We're working on finishing the results of that previous feedback. Once the dust settles it will be a good time to start talking about big changes again, but right now it's using up time that we want to spend finishing Opus 11 (as is all this meta-discussion, to be honest).

We just ask that people hold on to those ideas until a bit later. Then we'll be able to look at them properly and think about what to do next.

Right now, they'll just get buried under the 80 or so threads I have bookmarked to follow-up on.

Of course, it might be hard to know if a suggestion is easy or difficult, and the beta is partly to get feedback on how things work and change things where it makes sense. So we're not saying "don't report anything unless it's a bug", of course. Feedback is great, but let's keep the focus on 11.0 until that's finished, and then start talking about what comes next.

You explicitly asked for the new progress UI to work the way it does, remember. I dug up the quotes in another recent thread.

@Steje: I also thought about statusbar, but I always use dual-mode, so it's 50% shorter. And when you use a complex status bar (with audiotime, etc.), you have no space left. That's why I suggested the toolbar.

@abr: It's no duplicate, just throw the existing bar away! It doesn't fit to DO's look & feel. BTW with my solution it would be possible to create a progress-bar that looks same like the existing (jobs next to each other) and with more details.

@Leo: Sure, but as long the bar is opened most time it's wasting space and I also don't like the visual "jumping" (same as with conditional toolbars). On the other side I have enough free space between the toolbars, so why using an extra bar? But it's no problem, I simply don't use the bar and I will buy DO11!

Finally I know that GP has enough work with v11, but on the other side you want a beta-feedback. GP asked why people didn't had the ideas before, but isn't it normal that with each new major release people spend more time thinking about enhancements, features, etc., especially over X-Mas?! And I don't look into the forum each day and don't read every changes planned, sorry. Nevertheless over the years I've spent countless and unpaid hours thinking about new features/enhancements, drawing them and translating to English (it's not my native lang) and creating additional iconsets/graphics for the community. So tell me when is the right time to suggest things?

Not me :sunglasses:... not with popup that shits file display.

Yeah, I understand... I prefer a horizontal dual-display most of the time myself, and also don't use large buttons with text below icons on any toolbars though. So I don't have the kind of space you showed being needed in your example :slight_smile:. Hence...

Guess we'll let this topic simmer until "later".

@Steje: Lol, but within a toolbar you have enough height to display up to 2 bars and additional text at the bottom. The main idea was to have a similar look to the copy-dialogue-windows.

And I agree: Later, the world is not ready for this :slight_smile:!

Imagine a world where DOpus supports a ribbon-style toolbar with conditional tabs. Then the progress bar could just show up as a new tab, and you can click over to look at it whenever you want! No problems with the bar taking up extra space when it appears, no problems with running out of space to display the info... Perfect!

No no no, please no ribbons (at least not how they're designed in Office/Explorer) :slight_smile:. Conditional buttons, yes, but that was also my "too late" or "too early" idea [sarcasm off] :wink:!

I can't think of any other way to interpret your idea of moving progress display into a panel below the file display.

(BTW, the ability to not have it appear by default, and only when you manually turn it on or off, is there as an option already. Sounded like that was the mode you had in mind in at least part of the two posts I quoted there.)