lxp,
Windows users are used to seeing 'Date Taken' for photos and your wonderful add-in/plugin doesn't help with that unless they know what EXIF columns to display.
Hopefully, support will be added sooner rather than later for HEIC:
In my opinion Opus is not responsible to support a proprietary Apple photo format.
Every reasonable person chooses JPEG if they want their photos to be used cross platform and cross age.
As an Apple user you DO have a choice to use JPEG.
I have a MacBook and JPEG support is no worse than on Windows.
Every Apple user that I know uses JPEG and doesn't use HEIF.
HEIF is an especially bad choice because it is a proprietary Apple format and it will never be used on the Web.
Regards
Guido
JPEG developer
Depending on where one lives, Apple may take up half the market (like in the US). You can't tell every single person to change their settings, especially not when it comes to media made by others or made in the past. Same as for HEVC, or even more so as it isn't nearly as proprietary.
Every Apple user I know somehow ends up with a mix of JPGs and HEICs. I guess that is the default, for the device to do whatever it feels like. It's not that the average Apple user likes to tinker and change settings.
Opus isn't responsible to do so, but it's expected if the operating itself does so, it otherwise not offering a proper replacement. Hence I think a better and easier way is to implement an automatic Shell fallback opposed to specifically implementing support for HEIC and HEVC.
Guido,
While I understand your point of view, I do think Opus should support HEIC. While HEIC files are only created by Apple devices, people share those HEIC files with Windows users, often family family members. My daughters share HEIC files with me. People also switch between Mac and PC, or Android and iOS.
As a professional photo organizer, I know for a fact that most people do not understand (or are not aware of) the options on their iPhones for choosing the file format. If I ask a potential client if they take HEIC or JPEG, they almost never know the answer. Also, if a person selects JPEG but then they get a new iPhone or an update is installed, it reverts to HEIC.
We’re avoiding shell fallback more and more these days, as Microsoft have a history of writing metadata code that gets stuck on certain files/data or goes completely haywire a few years later and is never fixed.
There is a plugin API as well, if people want to extend metadata support for a particular format before we get to it ourselves. (It’s read-only metadata at the moment, but the API can be extended if there’s real interest.)
They can already view the files in Opus. How many family members care about photo metadata?
Of course I understand your points as well.
Just wanted to add my 2 cents.
And of course I am biased.
And I am not against Apple, I love my MacBook, which I have got so that I can develop JPEG as well for macOS and for Windows...
Regards
Guido
JPEG developer
Leo,
I don't think my opinion will change what Opus chooses to do, but most people/family members do value being able to sort photos so they can be viewed by the date they were taken, and see the date they were taken.
Because of me, many professional photo organizers have started using Opus, and I expect more will start using Opus when my course 'Introduction to Directory Opus for Photo Organizers' is launched (in September, hopefully). Professional photo organizer really need HEIC support, because working with date metadata is an important p[art of the job.
Understandable in that case.
Personally, I'm pretty much fully relying on the Shell Properties in Opus for those files. The main issue is that the info (camera info, and also the location data which I'm also getting directly from the Shell albeit through scripts as it's not an option in Opus' Shell Properties as of yet) had to be (re)placed everywhere, also rendering most of Opus' default columns useless.
If there was a way to connect the Shell or ExifTool columns to the Opus columns and info tip fields directly, basically like an alias, it would've been a lot simpler. Hence the idea. Something in between, like a way to manually link the Opus columns and fields to script or shell columns, could help a lot too. That way the Opus columns and fields are still of use and don't also have to be changed each time a change is made.
Otherwise, HEIC/HEVC metadata support natively, but I was thinking a bit more broadly for other kinds of files or potential future cases too.
Everyone,
I'm not asking a question, just sharing my thoughts.
This discussion makes me wonder about what percentage of Opus users use Opus to organize/manage their own personal and or hobby files, versus the percentage of people who use Opus as a business tool. And I'm sure many use it for both.
I use Opus as a tool for work. It's essential to my work. For that reason, I advocate in this forum for features that will help me do my job and will help other photo organizers and digital organizers do their job. I don't make requests based on personal preferences. I need to be able to work with whatever files and file extensions I get from my clients, and I need to do the best I can with those files.
Great discussion. I'm a pro photographer. It would be a nice to have to view HEIC Metadata in DOpus, but if I'm working extensively to manage photos and need all the data for search and organization, I use Adobe Bridge and Lightroom CC. Recently got into Mylio as well. It enables me to carry/access my entire terabyte library on my mobile using a fraction of the storage.
If you really have to, you could always spend the time and set up the Shell Properties or ExifTool columns to get the information needed, of course. Yes, it does take a little to figure out what property belongs to what exactly, but it's possible at least.
Personally, I'm mostly advocating for Opus to have at the very least the same capabilities as Windows File Explorer by default, for whichever use needed, especially for new users or ones who happen to run into this issue sporadically. As far as I know, Opus really only falls short in this very department. Most features are things Explorer doesn't offer at all, this just so happens to be functionality Explorer does whereas Opus doesn't.
I use Opus for both personally and professionally. Personally I don't have any Apple devices anymore, but I'm dealing with quite a few clients who tend to send media they shot on such, whether it's for editing or research purposes. With this missing, I also cannot easily suggest Opus to them if they need access to the same information and would have to spend just as much time to set it up to have it be supported and working in a similar manner.
Hello MegMac
I have a rather practical approach to JPEG development in that I deal a lot with JPEG images and gain insight in that way.
As I have mentioned, Opus is for me the reference application with the best thumbnails view mode to overview image collections, that's why my suggestions go in this direction as you may have noticed.
Beside Opus I often use cPicture for this purpose with an alternative view mode.
On the macOS side I find GraphicConverter and PhotoLine helpful.
PhotoLine is interesting in so far as the same application is available for Windows and macOS.
This is possible because it is written by two brothers where one develops the Windows version and the other develops the macOS version.
While the Opus developers come originally from the Amiga, I come originally from the Atari. I have never used a Mac before my last year acquisition of the MacBook. I just began interest in the Apple Mac platform when rumors started early last year about the soon to be released 15 inch Air model, and I investigated a lot about Mac development.
When I started using the Mac, I was surprised on the one side how well it fits in the Windows network, but on the other side how much acclimatization is needed to handle macOS.
It would be very hard for the same developer to maintain a larger GUI application for both Mac and Windows, which is the reason why we can't expect a Directory Opus macOS version any time soon if at all (the Windows on ARM case is a lot easier but has other obstacles). The PhotoLine case is a particular exception.
Regards
Guido
JPEG developer