From a clean install I open the default lister, immediately save layout as "default"
Then modify Lister and again save layout as "lister 1"
Modify Lister again and save as layout "lister 2"
Close Listers
Righ click opus taskbar icon, see Default, Lister1, & Lister2 listed in Layouts
Open any of them ad they are all Lister2.
Dopus seems to to replace all saved lister layouts with the most recent.
Any idea what's going on here???
Thanks
JohnG 
Let's make sure we're doing the same thing...
What exactly (and 'how') are you modifying when you make a change to the lister before saving it as a new layout. And what version of Opus.
DOpus 9.0.0.9
While testing I just made a simple change like deleting one of the Style tabs, just enough so I could recognise which was which.
Since then, I have currently set up a more elaborate Media Management Lister with Style tabs for viewing Thumbnails, Watching Movies, Sorting Thumbnails, Sorting and Renaming etc.
I mainly use the folder settings, changing the way things are displayed etc.
What I am trying to get to is to have several Listers each configured for specific tasks, eg File Management, Picture Management etc.
Glad I asked... so a few things to consider:
The presence of tabs on the Styles tabbar has nothing to do with Layouts. If you make changes to any of the toolbars, those changes are basically global. So you having made a change to THAT part of Opus makes sense for it to have seemed to have modified all of your layouts... it's not a 'layout' item.
So, now that you've mentioned changing folder settings (like what?) hopefully you are finding that you're layouts are being saved the way you want? If not, try to explain some more about exactly what you're changing, what you're expecting to happen from those changes, and what is actually happening.
FYI: there's actually quite a bit of overlap in the apparent purposes of the Styles and Layouts features. Styles seem intended to be invoked for transient changes to the display, while Layouts seem more oriented towards permanent loading of settings for whichever lister you load one into...
Opus 9.1 is out, by the way.
I had noticed the new release, but didn't bother as I am evaluating still.
Re the settings I was wondering about which ones are global and which more localised to particular functions, there doesnt seem to be any indication anywhere
So what is a "Layout" if it does not include a lister?
THe way the docs read a "Layout" as any particular collection of one or more listers and toolbars that may be opened at any one time, and I quote
"Youcan even save a snapshot of any given set of Listers as a “Layout” and reopen it at a later time to redisplay the same
set of Listers using the same settings, position and file paths etc, just as you left them"
So I reckon if I have one lister open, configure it to purpose and "Save as" Layout, I should be able to re-open that lister.
From what you say this may not be so
So what settings actually constitute a "Lister"
It seems to me that if one can't save all those settings then that pretty much defeats the object. If I have to spend half an hour setting up a lister every time I want do do something then I'll stay with explorer and my collection of addon utilities.
Maybe I am missing something here ???
Layouts save the positions of all the window(s), the directories they are showing, the Folder Options in each window (e.g. Display mode like Thumbnails, which columns are showing, sort order and so on), whether the viewer panel is turned on, same for the Find panel...
Just about everything except for the toolbars.
You can make buttons and hotkeys which quickly certain toggle toolbars on and off which I find works pretty well.
Also... some terminology clarification:
Lister: just the name used for an Opus 'window(s)'
It just so happens to be that the initial modification you were making... i.e. deleting Style buttons on the Styles 'tabbar' (which is a 'toolbar' by the way) was changing the actual toolbar... and was not something specific to the Layout you were trying to create.
What you're after with creating separate purpose-specific Layouts is one of several ways to go about your purpose. I do something very similar to open a lister to various 'Music' folders with columns set to show music related information, 'album' folder levels in thumbnails mode. While I have yet other listers set to open in thumbnails AND details modes for my pictures folders, etc etc...
Opus has lots of options... if you get stuck, it's easy to get sucked into looking at lots of options that might take you in directions other than where you were headed at first... so if you post a little more info about what you specifically want to do, we can try to help get you there quickly.
FYI: for beginners AND old users alike, as you make changes to your configuration to try things out, be aware of the Settings->Backup & Restore option. You can keep as many 'config backups' as you like and name them descriptively at stages between config changes so that if you find you've fouled something up, you can easily get back to familiar working order with minimum fuss...
Updated to 91002893
I've played a bit more with this.
I can see now that saving a Layout does indeed save changes, for instance I added the Thumbnail Size slider to one layout and not the other.
However, as you said, it seems that Lister Styles are Global and ALL available Styles will show as tabs on ALL Layouts, is that right?
This is very confusing, since you mentioned that the Styles is just another toolbar, so if my ThumbSizer in the Main Menu bar is considered part of a Layout, why aren't the Styles?????
I think we could REALLY do with a clear statement as to which settings apply globally and which apply to various parts of DOpus.
Given the large range of options applicable in a Style I had envisaged have dozens of styles for various tasks, and grouping these for various purposes in different Lister Layouts.
As an example of what I would like to do.
I like Explorer trees so I always want those.
I manage large media collections of Images, and some video and audio.
Usually there are source directory structures with raw media from cameras etc, which need to get organised into meaningfull directories.
Required operations would include :-
Renaming and re-sequencing (ie select files in a particualr order and rename them sequentially IN THAT Order)
This would have a style with the rename tool in place, view by list or details etc etc.
Copy and or Move to Single or multiple directories (Eg a single file may need to go to multiple target category directories)
This style would have Source Tree & Folder (Thumbnail view with size&dimensions) with Target Tree.
At Times I have a bunch of source files which may/or may not already be in some Target directories. I want to be able to Drop a bunch of files, or directory structure onto a target directory, and be advised of existing files, with the option to delete the source files if they already exist in the target. (As far as I can see the overwrite dialog only has a skip on identical option at this time)
There are times when Flat view is very useful, I can see at least 3 or 4 Styles with variations on how the Flat view is set up in conjunction with a Target Tree & possibly folder view.
Etc Etc Etc
On other occasions I am simply interested in working with files like managing a file server. The requirements are completely different and I had envisaged having a different lister with a completely different set of Styles, setup for File management.
It looks like it is not going to work this way.
I found the Toolbar Save As and though maybe I could save different combinations of Styles ans different toolbars, but no go.
I can create as many style toolbars as I like but they ALL reflect the currently available styles.
It seems there is just no way to have a subset of the available styles visible or available in a given lister. its ALL or Nothing.
My concern is that in the end it means that I will have to spend time tweaking options every time I want to do something, which is time consuming. I've spent easily 10-20 minutes getting a lister to work the way I want it, and it seems that I cannot then save that setup.
If this is the case then I wonder if it's worth the effort.
Thanks for your help and input it has been a great help.
Layouts do not save toolbar state.
The thumbnail size slider only appears if a lister is in thumbnails mode. If you switch any other lister to thumbnails mode then the slider will appear there as well.
Thanks for the clarification Nudel,
I would have thought the OBVIOUS things to save would be the toolbars and Styles.
And as you said earlier, if the layout saves the folder settings doesn't this conflict with the styles which also save the folder settings.
So In fact what we are really saying is that STYLES only save the Physical layout of the listers (eg dual, single etc) and the INITIAL Folder settings.
Layouts save the CURRENT Folder settings.
Layouts and Styles are very similar to each other. The main difference is that Layouts can save multiple windows while Styles only deal with a single window.
This is actually a really bad example 
... again, as I'll say a few more times below, the Styles tab bar is a 'Toolbar' like any other. What nudel mentioned below about the thumbnail slider being dynamic and appearing only when thumbnails view-mode is turned on made it 'seem' like the slider thing you added was being saved only in the case of a particular 'layout'... but now that you've added it to a toolbar, it's always there, just not always visible.
Actually I think I said 'toolbars' are basically global... if you make a change to a toolbar (add/remove buttons) then it is saved globally. In the case of the 'Styles' toolbar, normally it has just one 'button' on it that runs the 'Styles' field command... which generates a list of all available Styles configured in Preferences. So when you delete a particular style 'tab' from that generated list, you are actually deleting that Style from your configuration... not just an 'instance' of that Style tab appearing in the current lister/layout.
Addressed by nudel and commented on by me above... hopefully this clears up that piece of confusion.
As Nudel and I have mentioned, Toolbars are not saved in Layouts... period. This means anything related to toolbars... i.e. whether they are activated/displayed or not, what buttons are present on the toolbar, whatever. None of these things are saved as part of either a Style or a Layout... though this has been requested in the past. Perhaps GPSoft will add such functionality in a future update. I think you were just thrown off by the thumbnail slider thing being a dynamically appearing button...
[quote="jgowing"]Renaming and re-sequencing (ie select files in a particualr order and rename them sequentially IN THAT Order)
This would have a style with the rename tool in place, view by list or details etc etc.[/quote]
To clarify... no such thing as a 'rename tool in place' relating to a Style or Layout. The rename dialog is launched by a command (hotkey or button)... so again, if you want a toolbar button to appear with an advanced rename button on it, it's not something that will be put into play based on loading a particular style or layout. What nudel originally said about toggling task-specific toolbars on and off is about the best you can get right now... but we might also be able to help create a toolbar menu that you would otherwise always leave "on" that could show you a list of 'other' task-specici toolbars that you could select from in order to call up such toolbars to perform tasks once you've loaded a Style or Layout for a particular purpose...
[quote="jgowing"]Copy and or Move to Single or multiple directories (Eg a single file may need to go to multiple target category directories)
This style would have Source Tree & Folder (Thumbnail view with size&dimensions) with Target Tree.[/quote]
Not sure what you mean by 'Target Tree. You can open a dual-pane lister from either a layout or a Style... each file display pane with it's own folder tree.
You're looking at the dialog result of the 'regular' copy command built-in to Opus. The copy comand has all sorts of options... we could probably help construct something to suit your needs... though this sounds like more of a job for Opus' Synchronize tool, which I think you can indeed set to appear as part of a Layout...
Ok... 
.
Ok... 
[quote="jgowing"]On other occasions I am simply interested in working with files like managing a file server. The requirements are completely different and I had envisaged having a different lister with a completely different set of Styles, setup for File management.
It looks like it is not going to work this way.[/quote]
Personally, I don't see how many 'styles' one could need to perform file management. There are certainly 'other' ways than styles and layout to enable certain features in Opus to set the stage for performing certain sets of tasks...
One thing I'll say is that if you're really bound and determined to create TONS of Styles, then as I mentioned above... you COULD create separate Toolbars that you could enable/disable on demand such as nudel and I have suggested... and rather than having the regular 'Styles' field command on each toolbar, you could instead add specific sets of task-related styles (separate buttons for each style) onto each task-specific toolbar. More importantly... if you don't mind opening a new lister 'first'... then it would probably be easy to THEN click a constructed button that will do MULTIPLE things like load up a particular Style that would put 'style specific' things in play for you... like set the desired view-mode (details or thumbnails etc etc), perhaps position to certain folders, set single or dual-display modes, blah blah blah... and then ALSO enable/disable certain toolbars if you're bent on creating lots of task-specific toolbars. Because you can certainly create BUTTONS that do SEVERAL things like turn toolbars and Styles on and off... not everything HAS to be saved inside the actual Style or Layout. The problem with TOOLBAR states not being saved in Layouts is that layouts generally open up new Lister windows, and running a command to do that PLUS enable a toolbar would cause the toolbar to be opened on the lister window you ran the 'Load Layout' command FROM... NOT the new lister window opened with the Layout. So what I described above is an alternative until we see toolbar stuff saved in layouts...
[quote="jgowing"]I found the Toolbar Save As and though maybe I could save different combinations of Styles ans different toolbars, but no go.
I can create as many style toolbars as I like but they ALL reflect the currently available styles.
It seems there is just no way to have a subset of the available styles visible or available in a given lister. its ALL or Nothing.
My concern is that in the end it means that I will have to spend time tweaking options every time I want to do something, which is time consuming. I've spent easily 10-20 minutes getting a lister to work the way I want it, and it seems that I cannot then save that setup.[/quote]
Not necessarily... the ideas I mentioned above can help you organize yourself. Let's take one or two separate task-specific setups at a time and work out the kinks. Let's NOT worry about the specific commands or buttons each 'style or layout' related lister you'd like to set up would actually run... let's instead just focus on getting the different views in place for your different tasks, and can fill in buttons to task-specific toolbars as we create the basic layouts...?
Doing a quick submit... might have not explained everything as well as I'd like, but have to get a stir-crazy toddler outside to some fresh air.
Hi Steje
Thanks for your patience and comprehensive discussion.
I can see that I am missing the paradigm here, so I will go and do a little more experimenting and see where I get.
Its knocking on midnight here in Capetown, and with Xmas looming I will probably have to give it a rest for a day or two.
Merry Xmas
JohnG
I'm having trouble with a particular layout.
The layout I'm trying to save has the following elements:
Everything is saving correctly except the sort order. When I call up the saved layout, the lister is sorted by NAME and not by MODIFIED. The reverse order sort sticks.
NB: A similar thing happens when I toggle flat view between MIXED (no folders) and OFF in the lister. I used Details view to verify this. When I set the sort order in the flat view to the MODIFIED column, and then toggle flat view OFF and back to MIXED, the sort column changes to NAME and the sort direction remains the same.
Bug or user error?
-Jeff
Confirmed... I've submitted a bug report as it seems like this should indeed be saved in the Layout.
BTW: about the whole 'toggling' between your current date/time sorting, out and then back into flatview, the most likely reason is that your 'FlatView' format settings are actually set to sort by filename. FlatView is among the views that actually has a defined folder format of it's own, and switching it off and then on again would reapply it's format settings.
To confirm and test a change, goto Settings->Preferences->Folders->Folder Formats and under the Default Formats category header dbl-click on the Flat View item. The 'Columns' option is most likely checked... deselect it and save, that should solve your toggling problem.
[quote="steje"]Confirmed... I've submitted a bug report as it seems like this should indeed be saved in the Layout.
BTW: about the whole 'toggling' between your current date/time sorting, out and then back into flatview, the most likely reason is that your 'FlatView' format settings are actually set to sort by filename. FlatView is among the views that actually has a defined folder format of it's own, and switching it off and then on again would reapply it's format settings.[/quote]
Thanks, steje.
You were right about the FlatView sort setting. Typically, however, I do want FlatView sorted by name - but not this time. In this instance I was making a custom "Images" layout and sorting by date is the most useful to me. That's why I was hoping it would be saved in the layout.
-Jeff
If you want the sort-by-date to stick, turn on the format lock. I think you can save the layout with the format lock on, too.
Hmmm... while going back and testing again I am now unable to get it to 'break'. I went about setting up the lister in a slightly different sequence though. I'll try and see what I did differently that made it work.
The state of the format lock button doesn't save with the layout.
But it was a good idea and maybe would make a good Feature Request.
As a temporary workaround, I added a custom sort button to the toolbar. But I'd really like the sort order of FlatView to save with the layout.
-Jeff