...or is that just needed when you're looking to distribute installable portableapps packages... as opposed to manually dropping in apps that run portably in a self-contained manner and don't need registry and profile\appdata redirection?
I don't know about "any old program", but the answer is yes if you mean programs which can run off a usb stick. True/proper portable programs do not register on the desktop pc, such as in the registry, and leave no traces behind (apart from any obvious changes made to data on the pc).
Portable programs which come with a mobile app installer (they have the .paf.exe extension as far as I know) install into the PortableApps folder and set up on the PortableApps program launcher/menu.
Other portable programs (ie those that can run off a usb stick but which do not have a portable installer), have to be manually copied onto the usb stick. If you want the PortableApps program launcher/menu to recognise one such program and include it in it's menu, the program needs to be located inside the PortableApps folder (usually in it's own sub-folder). Then, select the refresh apps option from within PortableApps - this searches for new executables inside the PortableApps folder and places an option on it's menu structure.
There are other usb program launchers such as CodySafe, which is also quite good, although not quite as popular as PortableApps.
Thank you for the info Jon.
What is the point of the "dongle" option? I had always understood this (dongle) to be used as a security method so that a program installed onto a desktop pc can only run if a dongle certifying the validity is attached.....
Hi,
I've asked the PortableApps development support team some questions about porting an application to a portable drive without having to create an installation package and will update you as soon as I find out anything useful.
In the meantime (unless you have already seen it...), I've found this page on their site which is specifically for developers - do let me know if I can help in any way. http://portableapps.com/development
We will add official support for the PortableApps system in the next version.
Hi Jon,
I am a long time user of DOpus, and am really loving it (bought a few versions of it of course). I would really love to see this PortableApps version of DOpus. I'm using PortableApps as a way to keep my Windows configuration clean. This way you are not actually installing anything into Windows, so it doesn't get 'dirty' and slower over time. If you want to get rid of a program, you just delete the folder, and that's it. Plus you have the added benefits of easy backup of an application+data. If one buys a new computer, one just moves the PortableApps folder to the new machine, and one's done.. it immediately works. Note: I don't put it on a USB stick, but on a non-system HD in my PC.
For software that doesn't have a portable version, I use Cameyo or Sandboxie to contain the program + data. I've tried to use the USB option of DOpus to create a 'PortableApps-like' version on my harddrive (by just copying it to a folder on my HD), but that doesn't work. DOpus checks if it is running from a USB stick. Only thing left to do would be to use Cameyo to make a ThinApp of it.
However, if you're going to officially support a PortableApps version, I just wait it out, and run DOpus from USB for a little while.
Could you tell me when I could expect this great new feature???
Thanks for a great piece of software, and keep up your good work. (I've been programming for 28 years, and am a professional C++/C# programmer for about 17 years, and I really respect what you've created here.)
Regards,
Peter
It seems it should already be in there (in the beta versions). It is a bit of a shame that one has to do a regular install first, to be able to export it to a portable version (defeats the purpose i.m.o.). That means I have to install it in a Virtual PC first, just to do the export. Plus, I think it still checks if the portable version is running from a USB device. If it isn't, it just doesn't run. I really hope you make it a regular PortableApp (those you can install to a regular HD as well), plus you don't have to export them from the regular installed version, but can immediately install them as a portable version.
Kind regards,
Peter
[This was written before the reply directly above was posted, so it's in reply to the message before that.]
PortableApps support has been in the beta versions for about a month, if you want to try it now. It'll also be in the 10.0.5.0 stable release which we plan to release in the next week or so.
However, it probably won't do what you want. It's still for running a portable version of Opus off a USB device. The PortableApps support means we hook into their menu system and write Opus into the folders they expect apps to be written into. It does not remove the need for a USB device to be used (or act as a dongle) for portable installs of Opus.
You can use the "use this device as a dongle" option to allow you to write a portable install to a harddrive or any other location. The designated USB device will still need to be plugged in for the portable install to work, but it removes the need for the actual files to be on the USB device (so it's as fast as running a proper HDD install, but mainly to allow people to put Opus into encrypted devices which exist on the USB device but appear to the system as a separate drive).
All portable installs have some compromises in how they work, though. Although we've recently made it so that Explorer Replacement works with portable installs one you launch them, it still obviously cannot work with them before they are launched (since it requires registry changes).
We still believe that it's best to install Opus normally on your main machine. The portable versions are best used when you want Opus to be portable.
I'm not sure what you'll really gain by being too paranoid about allowing programs to be installed normally on your machine. That seems more likely to create problems which require solving and use up your time than the possibility that installing something normally might do something which causes a real problem. Don't get me wrong, I worry about those things with new or untrusted software as well, but I try things out in a virtual machine first and if they work well, I let them on my main machine. If they don't, I roll back the VM and forget about them.
Thanks a lot for your reply Leo.
I don't see the added security benefit for you guys to insist that the portable version has to be installed on a USB device. Cracking isn't any easier. You still need the certificate.
It might be a difference of opinion, but I do see all the benefits of using as many portable versions as possible.
- Easy backup of app + data
- Easy uninstall of apps + data, without leaving any trace on the OS
- Portable
As one installs more and more software over time a chain of dependencies is formed. If one uninstalls a program, one could break another. Windows gets dirty over time. I don't know about you, but install a LOT of software over time. U uninstall a lot of them too (initially I might think I want to keep it forever, but often I do not after all ). This stains Windows, and could make it unstable.
There are only a few choices left, then:
- Reinstall the entire system (it takes weeks for me to have it up and running again with all the software I had).
- Go back in time with some system restore backup-tool (but one looses all the software one had installed after that point, so you'd have to re-install all of those, and restore the settings)
- Begin to uninstall software one by one (never knowing it will delete every trace of it -hardly any software does-)
If one had Portable versions of almost all applications, one would have these problems. Windows would stay clean. One could easily have a fresh Windows install up and running again in no time, since almost no software had to be reinstalled. And it would be easier to pinpoint problems, since one could just disable the apps one by one (not having to uninstall them).
Everybody knows that Windows gets dirtier over time with normal installs. That's why software like CCleaner exists, and everybody I know of has to reinstall their system every once in a while. That's also the reason why phone OS's (and Apple Mac) use a different approach. If one deletes an app of those, everything is really gone.
As for the explorer replacement. I would gladly be willing to trade that off for the portable feature. Does it really add something if one does everything from inside DOpus already?? The first thing I do when Windows starts is open up DOpus, and it never closes.
I hope you understand that i'm not trying to criticize you, but I'm just sharing my opinion.
Extra note: I have reinstalled my system a week ago, because it had become unstable again. I too use a VM for trying out stuff, and I use my PC very securely. Sandboxed Browser, MS security essentials and so on.
Something seems wrong if your system is becoming unstable that often. I've never needed to reinstall Windows except when upgrading Windows itself.
Are you sure going to all this trouble to run apps not-as-they-were-intended isn't causing some of the problems? 
I agree that there can be issues installing & uninstalling apps in the wrong order etc., but those are mainly due to filetype conflicts, with apps that handle the same filetypes as each other overwriting each others settings and not restoring things afterwards. So it mainly affects things like media players/viewers, and not a lot else in my experience, and it's usually fairly easy (compared to reinstalling Windows, at least) to solve by grabbing the filetype/registry settings from a good machine.
(Re piracy, we already have extra piracy due to the portable version, which is limited to people who are prepared to run it via a USB stick.)
I've done regular installs in the past, but I've seen the light and am now using this approach (and liking it thus far). I'm not the only one having this problem. Everyone I've discussed this with has it. Almost everyone has to reinstall their system every 3 years or so. Why do you think MS created Restore Points, if you could just as well uninstall some software? Why do people use tools like CCleaner/Sandboxie? Why do Google and Apple use single directory-sandbox-installs? All because I'm the only one seeing it like this?
For arguments sake: Even if normal installations and uninstalls wouldn't make the system dirty and slow, the portable app approach still has the benefits of easy backup, and restore of software+data.
A new system would be up and running in no time.
I feel a bit insulted by your replies, really. In stead of talking about a technical solution (which I was expecting), you're basically telling me I'm just seeing it all wrong.
And I think it is a real shame that you don't drop the USB-device-check from your software (it would be that easy), just because that would make it easier to crack (which I doubt, really). Your blocking genuine use to paying customers in the process.
All other portable apps don't have that check (they don't like cracks either). I know you like Beyond Compare. They have a portable version, and it works just great (no USB device check).
Extra info: By Google and Apple, I'm referring to iOS, OS-X and Android
Doesn't this depend on your version of Windows?
Earlier versions were more likely to blow up and require reinstallation. At least that was my experience until I started with Windows 7.
Since then only hardware failures have prompted a reinstall. Actually, even replacing a motherboard didn't require it. The new one was very similar to one that just stopped working and a disk transplant did the trick.
There are still plenty of people using XP, considering it to be the best version ever. These people often report that they have to reinstall Windows.
Of course, some people make life harder for themselves by throwing things like CCleaner at their systems. People use it because it is there and makes extravagant promises. Were it commercial software that you had to pay for, it might well come under closer scrutiny.
After reading Leo's messages on that particular issue, I stopped playing silly buggers.
I have experienced the same problem and am currently re-installing Windows for what feels like the 1,000th time. Before anyone accuses me of being careless or something, I have over twenty-five years experience in IT and, although not as clever as Leo, am generally regarded as an expert in IT and PC matters.
My 'problem' is that I 'really use' my PC. My partner complains I have too many programs installed. I try new programs, I experiment with different settings, although am always careful to install and uninstall the 'proper' way. For example, I avoid editing the Registry, etc. I'm sure I can't be alone in this - as a heavy PC user. In fact, the activity on this forum seems to be largely from people who are playing around with configuration settings in DO, trying out new things. Eventually you find you have gone too far (well, I do...) and need to uninstall and then re-install.
Leo, I believe you of course, but am amazed that you haven't had to re-install Windows.
Whether this idea of installing portable app versions of programs will resolve this problem is moot. but I am tempted to give it a try. After all, what have I got to lose, as I seem to have to re-install Windows every few months anyway.
I recommend using a virtual machine for trying out programs and any =drastic changes. That way you only need to keep/apply the things that work.
There is very good, free virtual machine software out there. It's not a technology that's reserved for business or "pro" users anymore.
Changing configuration settings in Opus (or just about anything else) should never do anything so drastic that you have to re-install the entire operating system. You'd normally just need to change the settings back to how they were, or unininstall/re-install the program in question.
I'm amazed people are still having to re-install windows regularly so long after the Win9x days. 
It won't change anything, at least in the case of Opus. Why would it? All portable mode gives you, at least with Opus, is a copy that you can carry around on a USB drive. If you don't want to do that, don't waste your time as it won't gain you anything else.
If your machine is hosed so badly that it needs reinstalling, I'd work out how/why it got so bad, to avoid the same thing happening again. (It's hard to give advice about that without knowing the particulars of the problem(s) that keep prompting y'all to reinstall, although we don't have the resources to be a general PC Support Centre anyway. But you can post in the CoffeeShop area if you want advice from us & other forum members about diagnosing/solving problems.) Understanding the problem is more important than throwing random voodoo at the problem, like switching to portable installers.
Remember that even a "portable" version of something can modify the registry etc.
Time and complexity by going off the beaten path.
Backing up and transferring your Opus config between machines/installs is already simple, even with a normally installed version. In both cases, it is just a directory that you need to copy. In the installed case, there is a wizard which can back it up to a zip file for you, making things even simpler.
Full system-drive backups are another very useful thing. If I do find my system completely hosed by something I (or some software) did, I can always go back to how things were last night because I've got Windows set to do a disk-image backup every day. That's built-into Windows and only some disk space (which is cheap these days; cheaper than time).
There's nothing wrong with using a restore point if something goes horribly wrong. That's another thing (with the other safety nets I mention above) which should mean you'll only need to re-install if you're really unlucky. (Which can happen, but if it's happening to lots of people, regularly, then I think something is wrong.)
I often wonder that myself.
CCleaner is something I might run when there is a problem, but not pre-emptively. I haven't used it myself and don't have a strong opinion on it in particular -- and I hear it is one of the better tools in this category -- but it's not something I or anyone I know has needed to use to keep a machine stable.
Running something that changes the registry and has to make guess about other program's registry usage can only cause problems when things are running fine. Why use it, unless there is a problem? That's trying to fix something that isn't broken.
Registry "bloat" is almost completely a myth on modern versions of Windows, too. It's almost always irrelevant.
Sandboxie seems a good piece of software, but I'd say it is for running applications that you do not trust to have full access to the machine. My solution to that is to not run anything I don't trust in the first place. I can't think why I would want to run a program I didn't trust, or what problems I might run into that would not usually be picked up by anti-virus/anti-spyware tools. I'm sure there are rare cases where that level of paranoia has saved people, but in every other case it has just made things more complex and time-consuming, for nothing.
That's very different. They've designed their operating systems, APIs and app-deployment mechanisms around the concept of isolated applications. It's a good idea. But it is not how Windows, or the software that runs on Windows, was designed to work, and it is impossible to retrofit that idea to Windows. (Except by doing with Microsoft are doing with Metro-style apps in Windows 8, but really that is a new OS which runs side-by-side with Windows, not a change to Windows itself, and normal desktop apps are completely unchanged.)
True for some apps, but not for Opus. Your configuration is stored in a single directory, either way.
No insult was intended. This is just how I see it, and I'm trying to explain that if a system fails it's better to work out what caused the failure than to go to a lot of complexity doing things differently because they might solve the problem.
I'm guessing people who were frequently reinstalling Windows, and now do this, still find their machines get in the same kind of state after a while?
It's always a trade-off, but I don't see that we are blocking anyone from doing anything that useful.
True, and some apps have might more invasive DRM than Opus. It's a balance. We change things sometimes (like recently enabling people to use portable TrueCrypt drives etc.) but only when there's a clear technical problem which needs to be solved.
What's the actual issue which a HDD install causes that a HDD-based "portable" install would avoid?
Or, to put the question another way, what is it that you think our installer does which is potentially harmful and that someone might want to avoid? (Other than placing a shortcut icon on the desktop. )