10.2.0.* beta + Chrome compatibility

I'll try to keep this short and sweet. I don't want to go "on and on" posting "reams of data". :wink:

I'm running Windows 7 64-bit.

So, Directory Opus 10.2.0.0 was working fine.

Installed 10.2.0.1 beta and roughly around the same time, i started getting freezes in Chrome. Specifically, opening and closing tabs in Chrome would occasionally freeze the screen, though the mouse cursor would still move usually.

I tried almost everything. Going back to older drivers for every single device, switching IDE/ACHI HDD modes, uninstalling each program, etc, and then checking if the freezing still occurred. The only thing i didn't uninstall was Directory Opus, since i need and use it. I didn't think to try going back to 10.2.0.0, since i can't see how Directory Opus could cause Chrome to freeze.

Turns out i also had a hard drive going bad. Salvaged what i could, deleted the partition, re-initialised the disk, ran a wipe on it with HD Tune Pro. Halfway through, Chrome froze the computer again, but not closing or opening a tab this time. I was dragging an image from Chrome into Directory Opus to save it. Didn't quite know how that was even possible, since Chrome should have no access to the drive, since it didn't even have a partition.

That was the last straw. All the freezing and hard resets had corrupted just about every program and the registry. So i gave up trying to wipe the drive (before RMA), and took it out and reinstalled Windows 7 64-bit.

I used 10.2.0.0 for this new install.

Everything was working fine for about a week. No freezes at all.

I see that 10.2.0.2 beta comes out and fixes an issue i need fixing, so i install it.

What happens within a few hours? I click on Chrome in the taskbar and the screen freezes. Disk activity (ie: Diskeeper auto-defrag) continues for many minutes until i give in and hard reset.

Hmm.

Gone back to 10.2.0.0 and it's working fine again. No freezes in Chrome at all.

So.. I don't know what happened, but the latest Directory Opus 10.2.0.* betas are causing UI interactions (open/close tabs, drag images to Directory Opus, click on Chrome on taskbar) with Chrome to freeze the computer.

What constitues a "freeze" by the way, is the graphics not updating on the screen, but the mouse is still moveable. Sound/music keeps playing. Disk activty such as auto/background defrags keep running. Sometimes i can ctrl-alt-del but then opening task manager freezes. The only way out is to hard reset the computer.

Also, this freezing occurs with Chrome 23, 24 beta, 25 dev, and Canary. All are affected.

Did anything change in the 10.2.0.* betas that would cause issues with Chrome? Or perhaps other 3rd party software?

Any tips on other ways to troubleshoot this?

I use Opus and Chrome and haven't seen anything like this. I suspect we'd have a lot of complaints if there was a conflict between the two, and the two programs don't have a great deal of overlap in general.

If your computer is freezing then that points to a driver or a hardware issue. Application-level software should not be able to cause the entire machine to freeze or stop repainting the screen, except indirectly by triggering a bug in the drivers or hardware.

If it were a hardware "issue", then i suspect that the exact same 3 triggers (and only these triggers) would not be so easily and precisely reproducing this problem, and that there would be many other symptoms in other applications (which there are not).

As i stated, the only times that the screen freezes is one of the following:

  • Opening/closing a tab in Chrome.
  • Dragging an image from Chrome into Directory Opus.
  • Clicking on Chrome in the taskbar.

As i also stated, this does not happen at all when Directory Opus 10.2.0.0 is installed. I have tested this for at least a week. It only happens when 10.2.0.1 or 10.2.0.2 is installed, within a few hours of installing these versions. 10.2.0.0 runs flawlessly. The betas do not. I suspect this is why they are still in "beta".

The reason i titled this topic with "Compatibility" in it, is because it seems like a compatibility issue. Obviously, if you're not seeing the same issues, then you have compatible software and hardware. Clearly, i do not have a compatible combination. The key to resolving this is to find the difference in our configurations. Remember, just because it works for you, that doesn't mean it works (or should work) for me. Likewise, just because it doesn't work for me, that doesn't mean it shouldn't work for you, too. This is a key concept is compatibility testing.

To be more specific on the freezing issue, it's actually not an immediate freeze. What happens is that Chrome just sits there half-drawn, and i click back or refresh or whatever to try to make it work. This causes Chrome to become greyed out as if it were not responding. Alt-tabbing sometimes works, but moving into the title bar of any window on the desktop causes these programs to freeze and go grey, too. Eventually everything stops drawing and i can't click on anything. Sound/music continues. Disk activity continues. The screen does not.

I know this is going to sound frustrating. It seems like the kind of thing i should be posting in Google's forums, right? But, and i'm very seriously positive here, this freezing only occurs when the two latest Directory Opus betas are installed. It only happens with Chrome, too. Every other application is working flawlessly. I've driven this issue into the ground with testing every other application and driver on my system, for days and days. The only common link with the freezes is the latest 2 Directory Opus betas.

What sort of system information can i provide? That is, what should i use to generate logs and such that would help you identify the problem?

Also, on a side note.. If you want me to, i'll gladly show you a situation where i, for example, inject a .dll into every single running application via various hooking methods, and bring the entire UI to a grinding halt or maybe crash every application running. The taskbar and "screen", as it were, are still applications, consisting mainly of the Windows desktop renderer (ie: dwm.exe) and the taskbar (which is explorer.exe). This doesn't have to be a driver or hardware issue at all. It's quite easy to destroy a Windows session with user-mode tricks, forcing a (sometimes "hard") reboot.

Yes, it's not impossible for application-level code to cause the entire machine to freeze, but we are not injecting DLLs into all UI threads or anything remotely similar, so it seems unlikely. Occam's razor: The described symptoms suggest a low-level problem (something like hardware, drivers, or anti-virus). Perhaps one which is only be triggered by certain combinations/actions of application-level software, but one all the same.

The phrase I used -- "points to a driver or a hardware issue" -- does not rule out other possibilities. It just says that the most likely possibility is not in application-level code.

Still, if you tell us the exact steps to reproduce this problem then we will see if doing that reproduces the problem here. In our tests so far we have not been able to reproduce it at all. Suggested details:

[ul][li]Which web page you go to.[/li]
[li]What you drag on that page.[/li]
[li]Where you drag it to in the Opus UI (and which folder it is showing).[/li]
[li]Which Chrome extensions you have installed.[/li]
[li]Anything else you do or wait for or any other details that might matter before the freeze happens.[/li][/ul]

But if even "opening/closing a tab in Chrome", without Opus being involved at all (other than it being installed), is one trigger for the crash then I can't see why you are reporting this to us rather than to the Chrome team, as it seems more to do with Chrome than Opus.

As I said, we use Chrome ourselves (I'm on Chrome 23, non-beta) and have neither seen anything like this ourselves nor had anything like it reported by anyone else. If there was a compatibility problem between Opus and something as popular as Chrome then I would expect to see other reports from people, especially once an existing thread is on the forum which would be seen by people who might be experiencing the same issue but had not connected it to Opus until now.

Hi Leo,

Thank you! I appreciate the response a lot, but unfortunately there's really not much more detail i can give you.

I don't have 10.2.0.1 or 10.2.0.2 installed on my machine, and frankly, i don't want to, because 10.2.0.0 has been running great for about a week now (and the week before trying 10.2.0.2), and i don't want to have the whole system freeze up again over and over causing crazy amounts of rollbacks and corruption in files and settings of any application running at the time (hinting at stuff like registry change journal rollbacks, etc).

I do agree that it seems highly unlikely that Directory Opus is the cause of any of this.. But what can i say? I have rolled back every single driver to versions that are at least months old (when i was most definitely not experiencing a single problem), one by one. This includes Intel AHCI storage drivers, Realtek network drivers, Realtek audio drivers, nVidia graphics drivers, Logitech mouse drivers, Renesas USB 3.0 drivers. I uninstalled a lot of applications that could cause problems like freezing, such as: Diskeeper (defragger), Visual Studio 2010 and 2012 profiling drivers, Avast! anti-virus, cFos Broadband Connect (PPPoE dialing driver) and cFosSpeed (traffic shaper), Adobe Flash, Fraps.

None of those had an impact. Chrome still froze. The only thing i didn't do at the time was rollback Directory Opus, because like you, i didn't even imagine that it could be the cause of the freezes.

A simple way to reproduce the problem is to just hover over the small blank tab thingy in Chrome and click it until you've opened about 100 tabs. Then close the tabs one by one. This causes the freeze about 30% of the time. Make sure to have around 10-20 tabs of random stuff already open in Chrome--but there's no need to touch them. Sometimes just opening and closing Chrome over and over again causes the freeze. Sometimes i just boot my computer, Directory Opus and a few background apps auto-load, i dial up my PPPoE connection, open Chrome as my first order of business and wham! Freeze.

There's no single web page or image that causes this freezing. I browse about a gazillion different things daily. It's entirely random.

As for the Chrome extensions i have installed, they are: "avast! WebRep 7.0.1474" and "Google Docs 0.3", both of which i have tried disabling to no avail. In fact the first thing i did was curse at Avast and try a few other anti-virus before realising that it was not Avast at all.. I have an extension called "NJStar Chromate - Chinese WebSite Convertor 3.0.2 " that is always disabled--i only have it there to remember what its name is, should my Chinese wife (who needs it) needs it reinstalled on her Chrome. It might be worth noting that i ran Chrome with "--disable-gpu" or some such command line, verified that all hardware acceleration was disabled via "chrome://gpu-internals/", and it still froze. I've also disabled every single "plugin" (including Flash, etc) at "chrome://plugins/" (not quite sure how they differ from "extension"), and the freezes still happen.

I know i probably should be reporting this to "the Chrome team" (which i presume is "Google"), but there's two problems there. The first is that the forums are positively flooded with rubbish. My post would get lost. It doesn't look like Google even read most of it anyway, and for good reason given the garbage i've seen in there. The second is, and i'm not quite sure how to say this without offending anyone, but i very much doubt that Chrome is the actual program at fault here, since, you know, it's a multi-billion dollar company with tens of thousands of employees whose browser is used on almost every conceivable OS and computer anywhere in the world by hundreds of millions of people. For example, if applications started freezing on my computer after i installed a relatively unknown anti-virus software, i would not fire off reports to any of those application vendors--i would report it to the anti-virus vendor.

I've been waiting for 2 weeks to see if my computer or Chrome freezes again. I use them heavily every day, all day. But, it has not frozen as long as Directory Opus 10.2.0.0 is installed. All of my normal apps and latest drivers and normal hardware is installed and in use.

I could probably try to image my boot/system drive, and then install 10.2.0.1/2 again and try to freeze it all up, but it would be a lot of trouble, and i don't even know what i would be doing that for. It would only be proving something that i already know, and giving me no extra information. For example, i tried running a circular xperf session and waited for the freezing, whereupon i rushed to the console window on my second monitor to get it to dump the latest activity to an .etl, but after hard resetting a few minutes later, the .etl was 0 bytes when i booted up and found it..

I'm seriously out of ideas and frustrated about the whole thing. At the same time i've been sitting for 2 weeks (with a brief and annoying ~3 hour session in the middle with Directory Opus 10.2.0.2) very content with Chrome not freezing. I'd like to keep the status quo if possible, but i also really want the CPU usage fixes that came in 10.2.0.2.

This seems to be somewhat of a stalemate. I'll try the next beta of Directory Opus, but if it freezes again, i'm rolling back to 10.2.0.0. There's really not much more information i can give you regarding the freezes, unless you have something specific you want to ask me to provide. Perhaps some sort of "dxdiag" equivalent that will dump my entire system specs to you. I don't know what tool would be the best thing for that.

The bottom line is, and though it may seem like i'm either mistaken or lying: Directory Opus 10.2.0.0 runs brilliant (except a tad of a CPU hog) and not a single thing (including Chrome) crashes or freezes for weeks (and likely for months and years to come if this issue can't get sorted and i don't update Directory Opus)--but within hours of installing either *.1 or *.2 beta, Chrome freezes.

Given this, though it seems highly unlikely that Directory Opus is causing the freezes, it can also be said that it is highly unlikely that any underlying and perhaps very slight hardware or driver issues would not present themselves at all for weeks when using Directory Opus 10.2.0.0. I've found the trigger, for sure (ie: Directory Opus betas). But is the trigger the actual cause? I don't know. It seems likely, since the likelihood of presentation of issues would be high after weeks, if there were even slight hidden hardware/driver issues somewhere. Also given the fact that the betas are "betas". I don't know how many GPSoft customers actually use the betas. I'm sure you have information on that. But it's not everyone, right? The pool of non-beta users is somewhat small enough already (compared to say, Chrome users), without resorting to dividing that pool into those who read forums, dividing further into those who can diagnose issues, dividing further into those who have mighty big beasts of computers, dividing even further into those who fit all of the above criteria and run the betas. That would seem to be a very small sample of people.

I lost a week of my life to trying to figure out what was causing the freezes only to have them simply cease upon installing Directory Opus 10.2.0.0 instead of 10.2.0.1. I've lost well over an hour of my life writing this post. I'm really trying to not lose more precious time over something that it would appear i have barely any control over anyway.

Of course i could just be cheeky and ask: what did you change or break in the betas? :stuck_out_tongue: That's proprietary information, i'm sure. Information i would very much like to have, but unfortunately i have no way of obtaining. All of my cards are on the table--i've told you everything--but i don't see many of GPSoft's cards. There of course are internal changing workings at play that i have no idea about.

Maybe i should just stick to normal releases and forget betas. :frowning:

By the way, i took a sleeping pill about an hour ago, and i'm kind of hallucinating, so please forgive any strange stuff or grammar errors in this post. I did my best. I need to post this before i flop on the keyboard.

I just want to say thank you again for the response and the attempts to reproduce the problem i am having. I'd really like to help in any other way that i can. Let me know if there's anything i can do to help.

Oh, i should mention. Though Directory Opus would seem to be merely "installed", it is also set to auto-start at boot-up, and it is set to run in the system tray constantly, and restore my previous lister session upon loading. dopus.exe and dopusrt.exe are running at all times. Shell extensions (including Directory Opus' own) are active too.

A few years ago (v9), I was having problems with our in-house program. I don't remember 100% what was going on or what stopped working, but our in-house program would stop working and crashed/locked up. It took me a few weeks to figure out why. Turns out it was Dopus's "double-click on desktop" that was causing our program to crash or fail. Even though I wasn't even using the feature, it somehow caused our program to not run (or fail).

Dopus was new to me at the time and was the last thing installed when the problems started, so I started my troubleshooting by disabling dopus.exe service, and the problem stopped. So I went into Dopus's options to see if any feature could be turned off that caused it. "Double-click on desktop" turned out to be it. If I turned that option off, things worked ok. Turned the option on, our program failed again. I have zero clue why this happened, but it was reproducible on demand.

I have no idea if this would help your case or not. Can't hurt to try.

Preferences -> Launching Opus -> From the desktop

By all means try turning off desktop double-click. It does use a mouse hook and although the only process it should effect is Explorer, it can't hurt to try.

I can't think of anything that changed in the 10.2.0.1 beta that could have affected Chrome. We've never seen any issues here with Chrome and both Leo and I use it extensively. Also we haven't seen reports of anything like this from anyone else. In general Opus is a self-contained program, with the exception of a few hooks into Explorer it doesn't (or shouldn't) affect or interact with any other software at all.

Try disabling all your Chrome extensions and see if it makes a difference.
Try setting Opus to not run on startup (and disable desktop double-click) and see if it makes a difference.
Try disabling your anti-virus/spyware software and see if it makes a difference.
Try updating your graphics drivers and see if it makes a difference.
If you have GPU acceleration enabled in Chrome, try disabling it and see if it makes a difference.

I appreciate that you don't feel getting to the bottom of this should be your responsibility, but it's hard to think of any other way, since none of us can reproduce it and all the evidence points to this being a problem on your machine alone.

You're welcome to avoid betas but program stability doesn't just magically improve because a version is suddenly no longer a beta - a non-beta release simply means the last beta version has been out there for long enough that any major problems with it would have shown up and been fixed. If you can't provide more information or a way for us to reproduce this problem, and if it really is a problem with Opus, then it's going to persist indefinitely. The sooner you help us track it down the better.

Incidentally, your argument about Google not possibly having bugs because they're a big company is a bit ridiculous. If that was the case then Microsoft, Adobe and Apple would never have bugs in their software either, and I think we all know whether that's true or not.

Hi guys,

I backed up all of my necessary stuff on c:\ overnight and will be wiping all that data to make an image to keep should Directory Opus 10.2.0.* beta freeze the computer again.

Thanks for the tip ktbcrash, i will try that as soon as possible!

Jon, to your suggestions:

  • I've already tried disabling all Chrome extensions and plugins, as i mentioned before. It doesn't help.
  • I will try disabling desktop double-click, and i'll try killing dopus.exe and dopusrt.exe if they show themselves after i stop them from starting at boot-up.
  • I could try disabling Avast! anti-virus, but this same freeze happened with a couple of other anti-virus, so, well, i'll try disabling it, but it won't necessarily prove that Avast! is the problem, because they all would have the same problem, and that is unlikely.
  • I can't update my graphics drivers because i've gone all the way back to 296.10 (utterly different branch) and the problem persisted. I also check daily for nVidia drivers and therefore have the latest 310.64 betas already installed.
  • I already said that i disabled GPU acceleration via "--disable-gpu" i believe it was, and it didn't fix it.

The idea of GPU problems are not very solid, because this freezing is more of a gradual freeze / lock-up of all applications. The mouse continues to work. Just anything that i hover over with the mouse locks up and stops painting and goes grey as if it were not responding.

When i hint that i don't feel that it's my responsibility to get to the bottom of this, it's because i'm not getting paid for my time. :stuck_out_tongue: Quite literally, i pay you guys to sort this out for me. I'm willing to help in any way, but i need some direction and instructions on what to try, otherwise i'll just end up going "on and on" with "reams of data" that may or may not be even relevant.

I seriously want to help you guys track this down. I really do. I just got my thread locked the last time i was a tenacious monkey. I waited for 6 days for Leo's last response. That's pretty patient of me this time around. I need some instruction as to what is acceptable or not to do on the forums and to try with Directory Opus. My passive nature this time around is because i just don't want my thread locked again.

On a side note, about the lack of interaction with other applications and the claim by Leo that you're not hooking into UI threads or doing anything remotely similar to DLL injecting and hooking.. Perhaps you can answer me this: Why does wlmail.exe, YahooMessenger.exe, wscc.exe, MediaMonkey.exe, and DVDFab.exe have "dopuslib32.dll" injected into them? Also, why does ACDSeePro6.exe, dwm.exe (cough), EXCEL.EXE, explorer.exe, ProcessHacker.exe, RAVCpl64.exe, and sidebar.exe have "dopushlp.dll" injected into them? I've written programs with keyboard hooks before, and they appear to inject a DLL into every process that would use the keyboard. Are these injections of yours because of this desktop double-click mouse hooking?

I'm also going to try disabling all of Directory Opus's shell extensions and see if the freeze occurs because of those.

The key thing i need to find here is a way for you guys to reproduce the problem. There's no further ways i can really do this. It's just opening/closing Chrome, or opening/closing tabs. Randomly it'll freeze. However, i can rule out things that are not causing the freeze, and i can narrow it down even more as to what is causing the freeze. (ie: Desktop double-click, not starting Directory Opus on boot, disabling shell extensions)

By the way, i didn't say at all that Google has no bugs. I'm just saying, that when a 3-man operation's application clashes with a multi-billion dollar company's application, and again without trying to offend anyone here, i think it's probably the first thing on everyone's mind that the smaller program/operation is the one causing the issues. Of course, Microsoft release patches every month. Google has 4 branches of up-to daily updates of their Chrome browser. But, seriously, say a few hundred people at the most regularly post and read here in these forums and try the betas? Tens of thousands of different people every day smack around Google's forums. If there were to be a problem with Chrome, then it would've surfaced by now, and it probably would've been fixed in Canary already. I tried searching for people's Chromes freezing, and there is really not much information. Probably because not many of them have, for example, the latest Directory Opus beta. :stuck_out_tongue:

Ok, i'm off to do all that now. I'll report in a few hours.

Ok, good news. I just changed two options and installed 10.2.0.2. I did what ktbcrash said to try, and that is disabling the double-click on desktop option. I also stopped Directory Opus from starting automatically, and loaded it manually at boot-up.

So far, i've opened and closed about 300 tabs in Chrome, no freezes at all. I've also closed and opened Chrome about 20 times. No freeze either.

Also, "dopusrt.exe" is missing (i suspect this may be responsible for the desktop clicking feature), and there are no dopuslib32.dll or dopushlp.dll injections in any process.

So, ktbcrash, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! You are brilliant! I would've never thought to change that option. I barely even knew it existed, and i most certainly didn't use it.

So guys.. Leo, Jon, looks like that though it appears that you didn't change anything directly relating to hooking or injections, it seems as though some other change you made somewhere is being relied upon by the hooking. Perhaps you're dealing with some sort of deadlock, i don't know, that's up to you to find out.

So, this missing link, this unknown factor, this "Occam's razor" as you so eloquently put it, is in fact not my hardware or drivers, it's something you did wrong elsewhere. I knew it all along. It was just a matter of convincing you guys, which has happened with my past bug reports. :stuck_out_tongue: Ehem, that got locked. :stuck_out_tongue:

And to think that i doubted myself, my computer, and other applications and drivers. To think that i spent a week dealing with freezes that caused corruption and rollbacks that ultimately lead me to reinstall Windows. To think that i sat here and was told that the problem was pretty much mine and that nobody anywhere has reported anything like it. To think that i patiently waited 6 days to get another response from you guys after continually asking how i can help and what logs and information i can provide, yet was told later that i was unwilling to provide any assistance. To think that it took somebody else's suggestion and not even the authors of Directory Opus itself to be a working fix. It's shocking. It is profusely shocking.

It makes complete sense that Chrome is the only program exhibiting the problem. Chrome leverages Windows' process management to deliver its excellent web security, memory management, and speed. It has a tonne of "chrome.exe"s processes going. Obviously, so, so obviously, Directory Opus' DLL injection/hooks (for the mouse, or whatever), at the very least upon loading and unloading (i'm looking at you DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH and DLL_PROCESS_DETACH), which happens every single time a tab is closed or open in Chrome (which would close or open a "chrome.exe" process), Directory Opus is botching it up somewhere and froze the whole computer in a short amount of time.

Though that doesn't explain why the drag-and-drop froze that one time. Obviously there's more problems under Directory Opus's hood than there would initially seem. But, it makes so much sense that Chrome was the only application that coerced Directory Opus into freezing my UI so persistently.

Let me guess, by the way.. You guys don't use the desktop clicking feature of your own program? Didn't think to test it? :stuck_out_tongue: Ok... That explains why you weren't able to reproduce the bug.

So, that's it. I'll report back if i have any more freezes, but it's highly unlikely. I can pretty much 99.9% guarantee that the desktop clicking option in Directory Opus was the cause. Every time in the past that i ran Chrome through hoops to test it for freezes (which would simulate about a day's worth of browsing, which is the minimum frequency that my computer was freezing), it would have definitely frozen by now.

Again, thank you so much to ktbcrash!!! Yay! :thumbsup:

One tiny flaw with your expert and insightful analysis is that Chrome is a 32 bit application, and therefore Opus' 64 bit DLLs are not actually able to be injected into the Chrome processes at all.

Glad you found a way to get around the problem though.

[quote="jon"]One tiny flaw with your expert and insightful analysis is that Chrome is a 32 bit application, and therefore Opus' 64 bit DLLs are not actually able to be injected into the Chrome processes at all.

Glad you found a way to get around the problem though.[/quote]

Yeah... Because dopuslib32.dll isn't 32-bit, right? :unamused:

Take a look at the processes i listed for the dopuslib32.dll injection, and then another look at the dopushlp.dll injections. You don't see that *32.dll injects into 32-bit applications, and *hlp.dll injects into 64-bit applications?

Not sure how you don't even know you're own DLL files. A quick look in PeStudio shows that dopuslib32.dll is indeed a 32-bit DLL. dopushlp.dll is a 64-bit DLL.

Obviously you're injecting the 32-bit DLL with dopus.exe (which is 32-bit), and the 64-bit DLL with dopusrt.exe (which is 64-bit).

I do this in my own applications that inject hooks. ie: Run helpers (ie: dopusrt.exe) from the core 32-bit apps (ie: dopus.exe) which are 64-bit and are responsible for injecting the 64-bit hooks.

I see no flaw.

Anyway, it's all good. :grin:

dopuslib32.dll has nothing whatsoever to do with the mouse hook that handles the desktop double-click.

Correction: dopus.exe is not 32-bit, my bad. You must be doing some other trick to inject dopuslib32.dll into 32-bit processes. Not sure what that is, since, you know, i don't have the source code. :grin:

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, eh?

Well, nobody but you guys would know that, obviously. Again, no source code. But the fact of the matter is that right now, with the desktop click option disabled, and regardless of whether that is the reason or not, there are no dopuslib32.dll's injected into any processes. I'm not going to ask you what it was doing in my processes before. I don't really need to know. All i need to know is that it's now out of my other processes and not causing any problems.

If it truly has nothing to do with any mouse hooking, then you may want to look into why it's there in the first place. Again, i don't need to know. No need to get into a big discussion about how Directory Opus works. That's up to you guys to work out internally.

Just letting you know so you can investigate further. dopuslib32.dll is gone from my processes. dopushlp.dll is also gone. The desktop click option is disabled. Chrome is not freezing anymore. And i'm a happy chappy. :thumbsup: That's about the sum of it. Do with that information what you will. I would use it to fix whatever is broken.

No need to insult me. :unamused: I believe i haven't insulted anyone here. Egos may be damaged, but that's what happens in debates. :grin:

Just as long as the placebo effect keeps working we can all be happy chappies.