I want the moved (or copied) files to have exactly the same permissions than the originals files.
If I copy a directory, and if the permissions are forwarded to the files within, I want to keep this after copying or moving the directory.
For now, with Dopus, if I copy a directory, the files permissions are evaluated and are applied on the files directly. They don't get the security settings from their parent directory, there are no more inheritance from their parent directory, just the permissions directly applied ON the files.
I'm confused. On the one hand you say you want the copied files to have exactly the same permissions as the originals. On the other hand you say you want them to inherit their permissions from the parent.
How can that possibly work reliably, unless the target folder also has exactly the same permissions as the source folder? We could copy the ACL verbatim but unless the parent folder (and it's parent, and so on) had exactly the same set of permissions as the source tree, you would potentially end up with quite different permissions to the source file.
I agree with you, but it's not what I said, or at least, it's not what I tried to say
Let's take one simple example:
I copy one folder (called "folder1"), and the files within this folder don't have any explicit permission, they only take their permissions from "folder1".
If I copy this directory "folder1" elsewhere, I end it up with no permission on "folder1" and with the permissions on the files within, directly applied to them and no more inherited from "folder1".
That's why I wrote :
[quote]For instance, in the source directory, the file ACL is :
account1 has full control inherited from parent directory
after a copy with Dopus, in the destination directory the result is :
account1 has full control inheritance=none [/quote]
It's the same ACL but the problem is they are duplicated on the files instead of being inherited from "folder1".
So turn off the option to copy permissions, and Opus won't do anything to the ACL - the file will be created "anew" in the target folder and get whatever default permissions the folder provides.
I'm no expert here at all, I'm only trying to understand what is being asked and what is being answered. So let me see if I understand this issue correctly. I will work from this example:
C:\OPUS TESTING\TEST BED
\---Folder - A <---- Copied Item
| File - A - 1.txt
| File - A - 2.txt
| File - A - 3.txt
|
\---Folder - A - A
| File - A - A - 1.txt
| File - A - A - 2.txt
| File - A - A - 3.txt
|
+---Folder - A - A - A
| File - A - A - A - 1.txt
| File - A - A - A - 2.txt
\ File - A - A - A - 3.txt
@megosu
You are saying that everything that exists below Folder - A inherits its security from Folder - A (explicitly or implicitly depending on how deep it is). You are also saying that you are copying Folder - A, in its entirety. So you expect the Destination copy of Folder - A to be assigned the same permissions that the Source copy of Folder - A had, and that everything below it should inherit these permissions.
@Jon
You are saying that, there is no way to inherit permissions because, all the folders above the copied files would have to have the same permissions.
Q-1: Wouldn't it be possible to copy the amalgam of permissions that applied to the Source copy of Folder - A directly to the Destination copy of Folder - A?
Q-2: Wouldn't it then be possible that all the copied objects underneath Folder - A simply inherit their permissions from the Destination copy of Folder - A? (See Q-3 below before you answer this.)
@both of you
There is also a possibility neither of you has mentioned yet, where different permissions might have been explicitly and directly assigned to objects below the Source copy of Folder - A, to the Destination copy of Folder - A (if one previously existed), or to objects below the Destination copy of Folder - A (if one previously existed). What should happen then?
@Jon Q-3: Is is possible that objects below Folder - A also receive or retain any security that was explicitly and directly assigned to them, in addition to what they inherit from Folder - A?
@kenalcock : I think you understood exactly where the problem is.
In your example, let's say that "account1" has full control over "Folder - A" and that every files under "Folder - A" inherite permissions, so implicitly, "account1" will have full control over every files within "Folder - A".
If I copy "Folder - A" elsewhere, the result is :
"Folder - A" won't keep any security permissions from the source. It'll gain standard security permissions.
The files will have explicit permissions on them, so "account1" will have explicit "full control" over each files.[/b]
[quote="megosu"]I don't want to reset the permissions,
I only want to copy one directory and to keep the ACL on this directory and on the files within.[/quote]
You seem to contradict yourself.
If target file is supposed to inherit properties of target directory, that means that permissions copying should be off (because the file is supposed to get target's permissions, not its own).
If you want to copy permissions, permissions have to be applied to the file when copying- how would you imagine copying permissions other way?
I think you'd like a very specific mix of the above- but regarding only inheritance settings. Still we have Owner and Auditing into the mix...
[quote="Xyzzy"]
I think you'd like a very specific mix of the above- but regarding only inheritance settings. [/quote]
I mean "If when copying without permissions file inherits permissions (because target direcotry has 'Inherit permissions' setting on), copy without permissions, otherwise copy with permissions".
Look at the tree I posted above. And say that only Folder - A existed—it contains nothing, it is empty. Folder - A has security permissions assigned to it (directly or through inheritance). The user copies Folder - A, and wants the same permissions that applied to the Source copy to also apply (directly) to the Destination copy.
This is one half of what megosu wants. And right now Opus will not do this half.
The other half of what he wants is if, Folder - A (which is the selected item in the copy operation) contains files, he simply wants them to inherit their permissions from the Destination copy Folder - A, whose permission should've been copied when Folder - A was copied.
But Opus is only copying permissions to the files under Folder - A, it is not not copying the permissions to Folder - A itself.
In which case we also need to consider two additional folders' permissions: the parents of Folder - A in the source and in the destination.
Also keep in mind that permission inheritance in Windows is a bit of a hack. "Inherited" permissions are just permissions with a flag claiming they are inherited. It's up to applications to recursively apply, and keep consistent, that inheritance.
Getting this right is incredibly complex. (Both working out what should be done and working out how to program it.) Whenever the thing to do seems obvious it is almost certainly because you haven't considered enough cases. This is probably why almost nothing goes anywhere near ACL permissions.
[quote="kenalcock"]Let me try to simplify the example.
Look at the tree I posted above. And say that only Folder - A existed—it contains nothing, it is empty. Folder - A has security permissions assigned to it (directly or through inheritance). The user copies Folder - A, and wants the same permissions that applied to the Source copy to also apply (directly) to the Destination copy.
This is one half of what megosu wants. And right now Opus will not do this half.
The other half of what he wants is if, Folder - A (which is the selected item in the copy operation) contains files, he simply wants them to inherit their permissions from the Destination copy Folder - A, whose permission should've been copied when Folder - A was copied.
But Opus is only copying permissions to the files under Folder - A, it is not not copying the permissions to Folder - A itself.
At least, this is how I understand the issue.[/quote]
In which case we also need to consider two additional folders' permissions: the parents of Folder - A in the source and in the destination.
[/quote]
I thought the same thing, so I check this :
"folder - A" doesn't inherit any permission from its parent, they are directly applied on it.
Same thing in the destination folder, the parent of "folder - A" doesn't have any permission that can be applied to its children. So "folder - A" permissions shouldn't change a bit after the copy operation.
megosu,
While I agree there's problem with folder permissions copying, I think you still get the inheritance thing wrong, see my post and nudel's explanations.
Inheritance is not a security setting per se, so it requires addtional control settings I think.
If permissions are assigned only via inheritance, that means that ACL of an object is empty. Regardless of how it's copied (with permissions or not), target should have empty ACL as well.
If it has it's own ACL, permission should be copied of not, depending on the setting.
Inheritance setting has nothing to do here, that's why I think it should be controlled individually.
Not quite. ACLs should be copied or not, depending on the setting. Inheritance- that's an open question.
As I've stated 3 times or so- right, seems to be a bug.
