Any plans to tweak the clicking options for Power Mode?

I know there are already a lot of options for the left, middle, and right-click when in Power/Detail mode. But for the past 2-3 years of using DOpus, I keep missing some options that would really help make mouse navigation better. I keep going back to the way Total Commander handles mouse's just a lot easier and faster than any combination I've tried with DOpus. This is the best combination that I have experienced, and I'll describe it in detail:

left clicking selects a file, but you can't drag the mouse to select more files. If you drag, it will act like you're trying to drag&drop the file somewhere else. Furthermore, let's say a group of files are already selected; if you then left-click on any file, it doesn't alter the selection at all. As in, it doesn't add that file to the selection, nor does it clear the current selection. All it does is move the rectangular outline (which means that it is the current file; it's different from a file being highlighted). See the first picture for an example.

Middle-clicking doesn't really need to do anything. The only reason why I tried middle-clicking options in DOpus is because I couldn't get the left and right clicks to work the way I wanted, so I had to put some functionality into the middle-click to make up for it. I don't particularly like using the middle click, because it's a wheel and all. If the left and right clicking works like I'm saying, middle clicking will just be a nice luxury to have, but not essential. That's what I love about DOpus, all the options.

Right-clicking should just be what DOpus already calls "Normal drag-select". However, the one thing TC does that is nice is that if you hold the right button down for like a second, then the right-click context menus pop-up. That's nice because when you're drag-selecting, you don't want to have the context menu popping up. But sometimes, you do want the context menu, without altering the selection. So holding the button is a good way to do this.

Anyway, I really hope this can be implemented. It's the only thing left in TC that I miss.

When will we be able to assign the ESC key in the keyboard map?
I like to use the ESC key to clear all selected files because it makes sense that way, but you can't assign the esc key in the keyboard map. Not a big deal, but it would be nice.

I know no one really cares about these clicking options, but I am finding it very frustrating. I don't normally criticize DOpus because it seems like there is always a way to do anything, but in this case it's just not working. I've worked with all possible clicking combinations on the 3 mouse buttons, but I'm not satisfied with any of them.

I hate to keep bringing up TC, but it's just so perfect on TC. If DOpus can make it possible to have it copy TC's default mouse-clicking methods, it would be awesome. It's not much, it would only involve adding a couple of tiny options or even a "TC clone" checkbox.

FYI, I've been using DOpus 9, and I don't see any changes so far to the clicking options.

It's not that the current options don't work well, but when it comes to mouse navigation accuracy and speed, I find myself having to be more careful compared to TC. All I can say is take a look at TC's implementation. I've tried to explain the subtleties in detail above.

The few times I've looked at TC, I've sat there for 10 minutes trying to work out how to actually do anything. If I can work out how to copy a file I count myself lucky. So the use of the word "perfect" here is somewhat questionable :slight_smile:

What does the red rectangle indicate, and what's the reason to want to move it if it's not part of the file selection? Is it like the keyboard focus rectangle in normal list controls? Why would you want to change it?

The only thing I can see that you've described above that can't be done in Opus right now is changing the "current" file using the mouse without also selecting it. The only time I can think of where that would be useful is when you want to change the file that's displayed in the viewer pane without altering the current selection.

Checkbox mode in Opus provides a different way to do that, but also a less convenient way if it's something you want to do a lot. A "set current file" mode for the Power Mode mouse buttons could be useful, then. But is that what we're talking about or do you have something different in mind?

There's a Power Mode option called allow single file drag that lets you click on and drag out a single file, even if others are selected, if that's any use?

When will we be able to assign the ESC key in the keyboard map?
I like to use the ESC key to clear all selected files because it makes sense that way, but you can't assign the esc key in the keyboard map. Not a big deal, but it would be nice.[/quote]
Opus 9 lets you do that, but you probably know that already. :slight_smile:

When will we be able to assign the ESC key in the keyboard map?
I like to use the ESC key to clear all selected files because it makes sense that way, but you can't assign the esc key in the keyboard map. Not a big deal, but it would be nice.[/quote]
Opus 9 lets you do that, but you probably know that already. :slight_smile:[/quote]

Actually, yes, that was one of the first things I checked (sad, I know!).

I never said TC was perfect in general. The only thing I referred to as perfect is it's mouse navigation, and by that, I am specifically referring to power mode navigation (high speed and accuracy). Give me a few minutes, and I'll put together a post detailing a few more of the subtleties of TC's mouse navigation.

Total Commander Mouse Navigation (equivalent to DOpus Power Mode)

OK, I'll detail out the little subtleties of this that only I care about so far :frowning:

[ul]The left-button, by default, acts like the DOpus "Inline Rename" option, with one important difference: it doesn't immediately go into rename mode when you click on the file. You have to hold it for a little bit before you can rename (like normal file renaming behavior). This is important because you don't always want to go into renaming mode as soon as you click on a file. I still want to be able to rename with the left button, but I don't want to be renaming every time I click somewhere. That can lead to mistakes because sometimes you'll just want to click in the window somewhere just to move around, or by mistake, or just to move around the red rectangle (I don't know what function it serves, but I like it, and, yes, it's the same thing as the keyboard focus rectangle). Often, you want to rename a file that is not in the current selection, so the left button is good for that as well as the red rectangle.[/ul]
[ul] For drag/drop function, the left-button works like normal. It's the same as the DOpus "Immediate Action" option, so nothing needs to added or changed here.[/ul]

[ul]The middle-button doesn't do anything. This should be the truly customizable button for users. Dopus allows full customization for all 3 buttons, so nothing needs to be added or changed here.[/ul]

[ul]This is the key button. In TC, the right-button acts just like the "partial toggle" option in DOpus. So, that is fine.[/ul]
[ul]Where it differs from DOpus, is that in TC, the right-button can also do the context menu. The only difference is that you have to hold it for a little bit (like renaming) before the context menu shows up. This is good because you don't always want the context menu (just like you don't always want to rename), but at the same time, you can keep the context menu where it normally is on most programs--the right-button. In DOpus, if you want to use the right-button for both selection AND context-menu, the implementation is funky, because the context-menu will always pop-up, even when you don't want it to. It's very distracting. That small delay is key to functionality. This is the reason why I had the context menu assigned to the middle-button for a while, but I didn't like that because for all other programs, it was the right-button and only when I went to DOpus, I had to use the middle-button. It was too much thinking.[/ul]

Now that I think about it, the easiest solution is to add an option where the user can assign a delay to both "inline rename" and "context menu" in the power mode options.

Also, right now, the context menu option only comes in two varieties if you want to select with it also: "(select)" and ("no-select"). I would argue that the context menu should be able to pair up with ALL of the selection options. Here's my ideal DOpus setup:

"Inline-Rename" [buttonholddelay=500ms]
Drag & Drop = "Immediate action"

Disabled [or whatever, doesn't matter]
Drag & Drop = "Disabled"

"Context menu (partial toggle)" [buttonholddelay=500ms]
Drag & Drop = "Disabled"

Something like that would just be perfect.

In Opus, the "Inline Rename" mode is just that - inline rename. It doesn't do anything else.

If you leave it set to one of the selection modes, then you can still get to inline rename by holding the button down - so isn't this what you're actually asking for?

[quote="jon"]In Opus, the "Inline Rename" mode is just that - inline rename. It doesn't do anything else.

If you leave it set to one of the selection modes, then you can still get to inline rename by holding the button down - so isn't this what you're actually asking for?[/quote]

Well, I actually want to have it in "inline rename" only mode. But I still want that normal delay so it won't start renaming every time I click on or near a file. I don't want the left button doing any selecting, just renaming...but renaming with the delay.

Let me say only that one of the things that made me left TC for DO was awkward mouse handling in TC- much more natural and configurable in DO :slight_smile:


[quote="Xyzzy"]Let me say only that one of the things that made me left TC for DO was awkward mouse handling in TC- much more natural and configurable in DO :slight_smile:

Well, thanks for shooting down my whole argument! :imp:

Seriously, I agree that the mouse handling in DOpus is much more configurable than in TC, and truer to the way Windows applications work. I'm just trying to add yet another level of configurability, mainly in the areas of click-delay actions, and selection/context-menu pairings. I don't think it would take much, but then again, I'm not a programmer.

I've got nothing against your request. :slight_smile: Just a sidenote :slight_smile:


I'm only going to reply to a few key points:

I never said it could be!

What I said was that DO can be configured to be as non-standard as TC is (by the sound of what people have said in this thread), and so it wouldn't make Opus "more non-standard" if a few more such options were added. I was supporting the idea of adding these options, or at least pointing out that them being non-standard isn't a good reason to ignore them, as Opus already has non-standard options.

It wouldn't be more confusing than all the annoying spam Directory Opus dumps on the users during installation: "Wanna replace Explorer? Wanna replace FTP? Wanna whatever function I don't want to be asked during installation?"[/quote]
I do not see how asking the user three(?) simple questions during installation is confusing. Especially compared to how confusing it is for a program to have, by default, completely different mouse button behaviour compared to every single other application on the entire Windows platform. Would you rather Opus took everything over without asking the user? Programs which take things over during installation without asking are very annoying.

It's called giving the user what they expect by default and you can turn off that feature if you don't want it, but most users come from Explorer so it makes sense, in most cases, to be consistent with Explorer. Same goes for what the mouse buttons do. You may be shocked that Opus, by default, acts like the program that 99% of people are used to using but I imagine those 99% of people would be more shocked if things were the other way around.

Now let's calm down here. All I said was that if TC had the non-standard mouse button assignments people are talking about by default then that seemed like an odd choice of default configuration to me. I didn't say that TC sucks or anything like that so there was no need to start randomly slagging off Opus for tenuous reasons like being asked if you want it to take over things during install. FYI I have tried TC briefly in the past but what I think of it isn't that relevant to this discussion. What I think of people asking for features from TC being added to Opus is relevant, however, since this is an Opus forum, yet if you read what I was saying I was actually supporting the people asking for those features by saying it wasn't a bad thing to have them! (That said, I've got no more say in what gets added to Opus than anyone else, seeing as I don't work for GPSoftware or write Opus.)

Now let's not let this thread turn into a stupid "my file manager is better than yours" thread because it's not productive for anyone. Let's stick to talking about whether people want additional mouse button options for Power Mode and what those options should do.

I don't know what happened sounds like some hostile remarks were made that have since been blocked. I was just joking above to Xyzzy, I hope that was clear.

Anyway, back on topic. I understand that adding options might be confusing to users, but the truth is that DOpus already has a zillion options, and a zillion more that I don't even know about, so adding 2 or 3 more wouldn't be any more confusing than what's already there. I actually love that about this program, obviously.

There are really only 3 teeny little options I'm asking for, please: :arrow_right:

  1. For "Inline Rename" mode, add an option for a delay for holding the mouse button before renaming begins.

  2. Add an option for a similar delay for the context-menu modes.

  3. Addionally, for the context-menu modes, there are only two options "select" and "no select". I would like context-menu to be able to be paired with any of the selection modes, such as partial toggle, Normal Drag Select, Auto-deselect, etc.

nudel, you are right that if these changes are made, none of them should be on by default. They should merely be options available because I understand that not many people care or want it. For the delays, it could be as simple as a checkbox with a prompt to input how long the delay should be in milliseconds. For the context-menu pairing options, it could be another drop-down that only appears when "context menu" is chosen and allows it to be paired with one of the selection modes.

I know I'm really nitpicking at this mouse business, but I feel like if I don't say anything no one else will. Here's another thing I noticed. Let's say I have the left-button assigned to "partial toggle" with Drag & Drop "Immediate action". Well, how am I supposed to drag and drop anything with the left-mouse button? If I drag the mouse with the button held down, it's going to be doing some selecting, not dragging. Isn't that sort of a problem? The only way I can actually drag the files is if I start dragging immediately after selecting the files without letting go of the button. Sure, that works. But usually, I select files, let go of the button, then later, I'll drag. But because I let go of the button, now if I click on the file to drag it will deselect it instead of drag.

The way TC does it (as I've detailed in this thread) it prevents these kinds of issues. I will argue that it offers more flexibilty and prevents mistakes, especially when working fast. You want it to be as mindless as possible, and with DOpus Power Mode, I find myself thinking about it too much. I am constantly selecting when I want to be dragging, deselecting when I just want a context-menu, etc. No matter how I tweak the options, I'm always left with something that requires more thinking than I care for. Like I said, all of this can be resolved by just adding an option for a mouse-button holding delay.

Don't worry, it wasn't that. :slight_smile:

Re your mouse button ideas, I think they're all fine and it's probably a question of whether other people also want to see them. If the mouse button code is anything like it is in the custom controls I've written myself (which are far simpler than Opus's Power Mode control) then it's a non-trivial change to add more modes without running the risk of introducing bugs in stuff that used to work. I might be wrong, of course. I don't know the code behind Opus and Jon might be able to add it really easily and do it just for you. I'm just extrapolating from my own experience when I say it's probably non-trivial and might need more supporters before it happens.

OK, that's fair. Sounds like I have to rally some support for these features. I hope the ex-TC users will give me some support here. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like anyone else is interested. I tend to be overly anal about stuff like this, but I figured if there was anywhere to be anal, it would be in a DOpus forum!

So...any supporters out there?