Copying bigger files to FAT32

Hello! o)

I just stepped into the FAT32 maximum filesize trap while copying some files over to a friends USB stick.
DO would tell me that there is not enough space on the drive for a 5GB file, but when looking at the available storage it shows 48gb free, so hu?

It takes some advanced computer knowledge to understand what's going on here, most people don't have that, DO light users especially might not have it.
Maybe you could introduce some enhanced error message and most of all, don't try to copy something onto FAT32 if it's too big anyway?

What' you think? Thanks! o)

Offtopic:
This situation also revealed flaws in handling this kind of error situations. Unattended mode was not enabled, I was asked to retry/skip(all) etc., but no way to skip this and other files and maybe retry with all the skipped files later with a NTFS-Media. It would be nice if unattended mode could be triggered directly from the error situation. The list of items that failed, should go into a filecollection of choice, not some kind of file format DO does not understand later on.

I think novice users who are not familiar with FAT32 limitations uses Windows Explorer. But... it will be nice and it's not big work to make few informations while filesize is greater than FAT32 limits. Opus may give three options (with explanation in window) - split file (with information that file must be join before use) or convert pendrive to NTFS (with information that it may broke bootable possibilities in some situations if pendrive is using as boot device) or using zip/7z (similar to split). It will be nice feature. I'm not sure is worth to made it but may be nice anyway.

The "not enough space" error comes from the filesystem/Windows. We just report the reason for failure that we are given.

Explorer used to do the same, although it's a while since I have tested it.

Unless FAT32 is needed for compatibility with another OS that won't support better, ExFAT is a better choice these days as it has more modern file size limits.

I think that problem is not with choose proper filesystem, but what do you get when you buy new pendrive - almost all of them are formatted in FAT32.

You can reformat them. But yes, FAT32 is unfortunately both ubiquitous and a legacy fiesystem that is not fit for modern computing.

Not helped by Microsoft's licensing shenanigans which have slowed the uptaks of ExFAT, although I think things are getting better there.

I guess we all agree that Explorer is not a perfect example of how to handle things, hu? o)

It would just be nice if DO, the StateOfTheArt-FileManager it is, recognises what goes on, maybe even warn about what you are trying to do (copying big files to FAT32 which is going to fail) and talk to the user beforehand. So both, pro and beginners save time. I needed to redo all the selecting and copying after converting the filesystem on the drive in question. Something which could have been prevented and I think a filemanager like DO is the weapon of choice here.

Converting filesystems from the error dialog is out of scope, but activating the unattended mode DO offers surely is not.

The same applies if the disk you copy stuff onto is full all of a sudden. You want retry and skip and abort, yes of course, but you also want to "choose new target" to get around the problem quickly, since the source drive is about to die or picking up the aborted copy operation is not easy to do if you are dealing with deeply nested structures.

I also had the wish to be able to "Skip folder" instead of just "Skip file" today again.
"Skip file" doesn't cut it if there are a zillion of them in the queue/current folder being copied.

This is not a rant, I simply like to point out that there is still huge potential in how DO could help solving daily file management problems, its primary domain. Excuse me from spinning away a bit here, but I noticed you were not talking about the same thing I was.

Thanks! o)

Do you still want that even if it slows down all copy operations, and/or sometimes goes wrong due to incorrect information returned by the device/filesystem?

It's some years since I looked at this last but I have a feeling there are reasons it isn't usually done.

I think it's also something people don't run into often -- definitely not daily (or it wouldn't be a surprise after using Opus for years!) -- and will run into less and less, as we're approaching the point where FAT32's maximum volume size limit is too small for even cheap, portable USB sticks.

Solution: Default statusbar should show filesystem next to space left, then on error you look at free space, see filesys and...voila, reason found!

And if somebody doesn't know about the limit of FAT32... easy to google. Nobody needs the knowledge to repair an engine, but if you don't know how to to add engine oil, don't drive a car. :slight_smile:

FAT32's maximum volume size limit isn't that small - it's 2TB and only Windows built-in format don't allow you to create larger partition.

We are talking about ~4GB limit filesize, not about max. partition size. So if you see xx GB's space left and 5 GB does not fit, then it's FAT32.

No, you're wrong - I was answering on leo's "we're approaching the point where FAT32's maximum volume size limit is too small for even cheap, portable USB sticks". As you see - he was write about "volume size limit", not about "file size limit". File size limit is already smaller than cheap, portable USB sticks (smallest now are 16GB, rarely 8GB).

And btw. that 16GB pendrives are still formatted to FAT32 because of some advantages (instant update of file allocation table for example what gives you possibility to remove stick without wait or safety remove hardware and you'll not lose any data).

Sorry, saw that too late (answer to Leo).

For less data loss with NTFS just deactivate cache (default since Win 8). I never unmount external drives, but wait 1-2 seconds after finishing :slight_smile:.

Do you expect that "if (fileSize > FAT32_MAXSIZE) .." for each file to result in a noticeable slowdown? My thinking is it would not hurt really, updating the progress dialog is probably much more expensive in comparison. If files and folder counting is not enabled that size check might be unwanted, but if it is activated, basically no reason to not check that on the fly and warn if things will turn out bad, no?

Files not fitting the target filesystem did not happen the first time for me, but I agree it might not be something happening daily, but it could! o)

I guess FAT32 formatted USB-Sticks will still be around for some years, just until the 2TB volume size limit is reached for every stick to be sold, which probably won't be the case next year or the year after. I did not find a single stick above 2TB on ebay at least. Digital cameras also still record to FAT32 everywhere, they chop the video files into 4GB chunks and chances are the maximum file size limit problem might occur even more often in the near future. Filesizes continue to grow, especially looking at video/movie related files here. The regular Youtube download might not fit FAT32 tomorrow. Something the regular user is about to encounter I guess and then no clue what to do -> driving people to use even more cloud and online storage, which is questionable alltogether nowadays.

Since nobody hooked into the other scenarios I mentioned, I assume you have a slight understanding for these (at least?), which I think is promising. o)

Have a nice New Year's Eve everyone! See you in 2o17! o)

ps@sasa

I tend to agree with that mind set, but devices and systems got too complex to know all of them by heart. Do you know how to fix the broken motherboard of the computer you're sitting at? No, then please stop using it! You see, makes no sense. o) But every car has a "check oil" control nowadays at least. If the oil level is critical you don't ruin your engine unnecessarily. This "check control" is what I like to see in DO, just for saving time and hassle. You sometimes do not check the filesystem before copying, well actualy you never do, right? o)

Yeah, overloaded control. If your car doesn't drive these days, it's mostly not the engine. :slight_smile:

I'm sorry, as the people getting more and more lazy they CAN and MUST learn the basics. Anything else will end up in "Idiocracy" :wink:.

These "basics" for computers is debatable. For me basics is known how folders and files are organized and how to install and configure programs, but these days people don't know even that - many people save everything to predefined locations ("My Music", "Desktop" etc.). Even people considered to be professionals in computers on many forums, are mostly duplicate myths and nonsense solutions (like "reinstall Windows" as a solution for most problems, or asking for detailed configuration even if there is zero percent chance that after get that info they'll know how to resolve problem). Computers are complex machines and gives lot of possibilities. You can learn everything and using DO as program for professionals only or you can add some improvements for less experienced users. Question is what is more profitable for GPSoftware.

You still don't seem to get my point. It's not about knowing the limitations of FAT32 or not.

This thread is about what happens if you forget to check the target filesystem before you start a copy with DO.
DO is a program which is aimed at helping with these kind of things you know? o)

Summary:

  • things work fine in the beginning but eventually things will stop because of too big files
  • you cannot enable the unattended mode without restarting the whole progress from scratch, which might include reselecting the files (a pain)
  • you also cannot redo the operation with the files you skipped because their were to big (reselecting required again, another pain)
  • you end up with a half-done copy operation, possibly leaving a mess in the target, which might need to be cleared up before starting all over
  • you wasted a precious amount of time with the first try (also painful)

Now if you always check the target filesystems and its limitations before starting a copy progress, I pull my hat, but I guess you also don't do that. So discussing what computer knowledge basics are given really does not help in the situation where you forgot to check.

The whole copy/abort/redo experience is what I am concerned about and where I'd like DO to kick in, warn me or help me out later on.
Nothing of that is given right now, which is where I think enhancements would be nice, since human beings make errors, I do at least. o)