Created Lister - Problematic

First of all before I get into the problem, this I need to know.

  1. Is there a way when you are under custom, to lock the tabs so they stay in place because every-time I change or add a tab they all go to the top and have to be rearranged?

  2. If I set up custom tabs dedicated, by name of tab name, to specific listers that I am using I'll close and save. Then open up another lister and I end up with those last Tabs from the closed lister instead of the tabs that were saved with that lister I had saved in the past and just opened.

Note: I can see if I have in my Preferences to do something such as use default or the last lister it could be a problem. What I am trying to do is set up listers that will have dedicated tabs to them, used only with this Lister. I am having problems with this.
a. My thinking is if I have tabs with dedicated names, only used in a given lister, when I executethe tabs should be what was saved with the Lister.
b. Problem is, when I open up the next Lister, even though the tabs have a different name dedicated to that lister, it pulls the tabs from the last lister.

Note: this seems to be contrary to what I have read.

Bottom line, I need to know if my thought process is correct:
a. a lister that does not share tabs with any other listers, should open up with the proper tabs. Some of the default actions of the preferences could counteract this. What might they be?

Another Issue If I drag an item from the top MenuBar such as "Files" to a titlebar and change the default items that are available will this affect the next loaded lister.
Example: If I delete "New" from the Copied "File Tool" that is now copied to on the custom created ToolBar, Will "New" still be on the Next open Lister's Top Menu "File-New". The reason for the question when I could test for results is I'm getting to many unclear results on the testing.

I hope I explained it will, If not I'm dead ion the water.

Bob

Bob... I really can only "guess" at exactly what it is you're doing in each of the separate things you're describing here (maybe the last one is better off as a separate topic).

1.) I imagine you mean when you enter 'Customize' mode... but I'm not sure what behavior you're describing. Can you post a screenshot?

2.) You haven't really explained exactly what you're doing. "Naming" a tab (if that is indeed what you're doing) doesn't dedicate it to anything... What exactly are you doing, saving a lister "Layout" or saving a "Tab Group"...? And either way, how are you then "loading" whatever it is you're "saving" later? Maybe narrow it down to one specific example, a set of tabs and are or aren't "naming" the tabs themselves, what are you "closing", what are you "saving" (and how - not to mention "close" before "save" as you wrote (?) or the other way around), and then what and how are you "opening" another lister and what are you seeing vs what you expected to see...?

2a+b.) I save layouts all the time with specific folder tabs... just as you SEEM to want to do... if you setup a lister with the folder tabs you want, you can save that as a "Layout", and then launch that layout in several different ways. You keep mentioning "TABS" with dedicated names and I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about or how you think "naming" a tab has anything to do with "loading" those tabs into a specific lister. Devils in the details...

As for the "other" issue you're talking about... if you make a change to a toolbar, then that change persists across all listers. Toolbars are specific objects (<toolbar_name>.dop files) in Opus, and when you make a change to one - you're changing the "toolbar" and not some "lister specific instance" of the toolbar such as you seem to be asking about. Not even toolbar on/off "State" is saved as part of a lister (layout). As above... take a single example of what you're doing, and step through it. Otherwise I think we'd just be guessing why you seem to be experiencing inconsistent results. If you delete a button or menu item from a toolbar, it shouldn't "come back" unless you restore an older version of it in some way (like through the configuration backup and restore feature).

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I messed up!!! I should have been saying "ToolBar's" Not "Tab's" please disregard this topic. Delete if possible so not to confuse other users. I can restate my issue with new topic and also include images.

Sorry!!!

Bob

On reading your last paragraph this might be my total problem. I will explore this and share conclusion.

Bob

If I create a tool bar with the name ford. I see your saying that it will appear in other Listers.

Example of "ToolBar" in Lister:

  1. Lister Called Cars ("ToolBar" Used) Chev, Pointiac, Cadillac.
  2. Create Lister called Colors ("ToolBar" Used) Chev, Red, Orange,Black.

If I change the "ToolBar" Chev I would expect every Lister that uses that "ToolBar" would take to the changes.
But. If I added as I did above the "ToolBar" Red, Orange, Black I would not expect them to appear in the next lister I opened.

Am I right so far.

If I'm right there must be a Preference problem.

Also is there a dedicated file that hold's the Lister's not that this could be the issue - I'm just thinking of other possibility.
"ToolBar" can be used in many listers . I would think that the name of a "ToolBar" is unique.






a. Lister run 1.png - Lister as designed.
b. Lister run 2nd.png - Lister came up with the "ToolBar's" from "a"
c. Lister run 3rd (And Correct Look).png - Made corrections to "b", trhe way it should have been.
d. Lister run 4th (Totally off the Wall).png - Had "c" "ToolBar's".

Seems to use previous Lister's "ToolBar's".
You can see from images where I use different names Org... & Learn... for my "ToolBar's".

Bob


This was last image. All have the same action. ToolBars from last used Lister.

My thought.

It seems like it's saving the active Lister's setting as a default.
Than next lister is open with the default.
Wild Guess.

One thing I did notice. When to Listers are open and custom is on any changes affect both. Not what I would expect if a window is highlighted it only should get the action. But maybe Opus looks at them as both active under customization.

Bob

Good morning I think I just woke up. And believe me I hope I'm wrong!

Based on my last message. I believe you're telling me that what I do in one Lister affects all. If I add or delete a toolbar from one it effects all, loaded or not. If that's right it screws up all my thought of what logic is. Logically it should not work that way!!! Please tell me I'm wrong and that 1 Lister has no affect on other Listers.

Wait - wait - wait. I have to be wrong because what would be the purpose of a Lister layout if you can't have different toolbars. I have an issue that has no solution? Maybe I'm ready for a re-install. Words I hate. Opus has ALWAYS been dependable so I must be doing something wrong. Any last words before I do the dastardly deed of a re-install?

Bob

Bob

All listers use the same active (checked) toolbars, so if you have checked toolbars named ONE, TWO, THREE, then every lister you open will show toolbars ONE, TWO, and THREE. If you now deactivate (uncheck) the toolbar called TWO then every lister you subsequently open will show toolbars ONE and THREE. This is precisely what your screen captures show.

Regards, AB

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I can see what's going on there and I understand what you are saying totally.

But then I have a question...what is the need for a list of listers (different lister layouts) that are all going to open up with the same toolbars. I'm trying hard to understand this my problem is that with some ways that I view with Opus the toolbars are more demanding to accomplish my task. But in many cases all I need is a couple of items on the toolbar. I was hoping that maybe that was my purpose behind this.

If there was a specific file that holds this information regarding the toolbars and the listers I could accomplish my purpose by keeping this is a subfolder and move it into place just by using a macro. This might sound a little drastic but really its not. As I get ready to send this response I sit here bewildered because what I am trying to do seems so natural. I even went so far as to save a lister and then looking for a file that changed and didn't even find a file that changed. My purpose for all this is trying to setup a lister that is more dedicated to the program that I am currently running. So I guess the only way I can accomplish this woiuld be to setup a macro that goes into the customization and changes the toolbars I want.

My final question would be...is there a way to lock those toolbars in place. Right now the way it is when I add a toolbar they all want to go to the top.

Thank you very much for the help.

Bob

Bob

You can toggle toolbars on/off using a button, and you can place them where you want - e.g. top/bottom. See example below.

Regards, AB


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Ah... wow, Tabs vs Toolbars... hee hee. Ok, in addition to what AB had to say - I think responding to your first post since my last reply should answer all the question, first - re-iterating my previous statement that toolbar on/off state is not something that is "saved" in ANY "lister".

Also, reading a bit ahead into this post, I think we need to distinguish some terminology between creating, changing, and turning toolbars on/off... When you "create" a toolbar while in Customize mode, it also turns that new toolbar "on"... "globally". A "global" toolbar means that it's turned "on" for any lister that you open, and that "on" state again is not tied to a specific lister (and again, I'm assuming each time you refer to a "named" lister - that you mean a saved lister "layout"). This is what's driving the effect you're seeing that AB has described to you...

Again, I think maybe a terminology goof here... "changing" toolbar Chev means you've "modified" that toolbar... added/removed/modified a button or menu item on that toolbar. So if you make a "change" to a toolbar (different than turning it on or off) then any time you turn that toolbar back "on" the "change" should remain...

Now you're saying "added"... which I assume to mean you created or turned "on" other toolbars. Whether they should "appear in the next lister" you open or not depends on how you turn it on. I mentioned above that when you "create" a new toolbar in Customize mode, that it get's turned on "globally", and will re-appear with every lister you open after. That said, you can also turn a toolbar on "locally" instead of "globally". "Local" toolbars only appear in the lister that is active when you run the related "Toolbar LOCAL" command from a button, hotkey, etc... That means if you have multiple listers open at the moment, the "local" toolbar only appears in currently "active" lister, and also won't appear in any new listers that you open.

[quote="amerifax"]Also is there a dedicated file that hold's the Lister's not that this could be the issue - I'm just thinking of other possibility.
"ToolBar" can be used in many listers . I would think that the name of a "ToolBar" is unique.[/quote]
Again... assuming that by "Listers" you mean saved Lister "Layouts"... yes, lister "Layouts" are saved in layout specific "files" in the /dopusdata\Layouts folder... but also again, lister layouts do not include toolbar on/off state. The differences mentioned above between "global" vs "local" toolbars only affect either "ALL" listers or the "currently active" lister. This is different than saving a lister layout that includes specific toolbars being turned on or off for and having that take effect when you go to load that particular layout again.

What I "think" you're looking for there has been requested by some of us for awhile, and would be useful in cases where the reason you save a particular "layout" is to perform work of a certain type where you might want specific buttons available (and not others) for the work and tasks you're creating the layout for... but we don't have that functionality yet. To your "bewilderment" :slight_smile: at layouts not currently working this way... well, they just don't - :slight_smile:. Layouts currently store other types of info... folder/tab positions... single/dual pane file displays, folder format (view mode, columns displayed, etc) of folders/tabs saved in the layout, and other things. If I'm interpreting what I "think" you want, then I generally agree with you... as I suggested above, I think it'd be VERY nice to have specific toolbars saved in layouts that you define for specific tasks and workflows.

However, I think some changes were made in v10 (maybe before then, can't remember) that make it a little easier to achieve a similar affect. You can create a button or hotkey, or tray icon item or whatever to load a layout, and then "locally" turn on toolbars in that new layout you're opening. Here's an example using a bunch of my toolbars:

Prefs LAYOUT=Tutorial Toolbar LOCAL NAME=my.MediaTools Toolbar LOCAL NAME=my.DiffTools Toolbar LOCAL NAME=my.eBooks Toolbar LOCAL NAME=v10.Drives Toolbar LOCAL NAME=my.Comics
What I think used to happen if you tried a command like this in older version of Opus is that maybe the extra toolbars got opened in the "current" lister instead of the new lister layout you were opening with the first command. At any rate, this method still has some drawbacks...

a.) It can only be used by some manual mechanism... since it's not truly saving the toolbar state "in" the layout itself, this means you can't get this to work using the built-in methods to load lister layouts - like the menu when right-clicking on the desktop, or elsewhere in Opus where the list of layouts is automatically generated. You have to create specific buttons/hotkeys/etc with the necessary commands like those above.
b.) You can't "locally" turn "off" any toolbars in just the new lister layout you're loading that are currently turned on "globally"...

This may be my longest reply yet :slight_smile:... Does any of this help close the loop? Are we talking all the same thing now :slight_smile:...?

steje<
(and again, I'm assuming each time you refer to a "named" lister - that you mean a saved lister "layout")<<
I was thinking that the "ToolBar" name being different would be the ticket for great Listers. As long as the "ToolBar" name are different I could control what is being displayed in the Lister.

(different than turning it on or off) then any time you turn that toolbar back "on" the "change" should remain...<<
Customize-Toolbars (CheckBox - I was thinking check the box and save would give total control of the Lister being worked on, after it is saved. I know see that all Lister's will take this change: still hard to sink in but OK.)

Now you're saying "added"... which I assume to mean you created or turned "on" other toolbars.<< By this I mean CheckBox. Got to hurry back to your response. I saw hope in the word "Local".
"locally" instead of "globally"<< I'm afraid to read the rest of the paragraph. It's got to be the answer to my pain.
That means if you have multiple listers open at the moment, the "local" toolbar only appears in currently "active" lister, and also won't appear in any new listers that you open.<<
Unless I make that choose by using Custom when in a different lister?

This is different than saving a lister layout that includes specific toolbars being turned on or off for and having that take effect when you go to load that particular layout again.<< I think I just took a step backwards unless. If I have this lister with the "Local" effect and save it. I would want it to be just this way every time it is opened. My hope is of the two Globe & Local, Local would allow me to have many different Listers all unique to the task I'm doing.

"Layouts" are saved in layout specific "files" in the /dopusdata\Layouts folder<<
What folder would that be in. A Search did not come up with "dopusdata".

I think it'd be VERY nice to have specific toolbars saved in layouts that you define for specific tasks and work flows<<
You got it!!!

That was the reason for where the files are. If Opus could not do it I feel I can with a macro. If the toolbars info is saved to a file i could swap it out as needed. But I'm thinking, the more I find out, the toolbar names and location is not saved. But than how can it be effecting other listers. To files might be key:

  1. Lister Information
  2. ToolBar Information.

However, I think some changes were made in v10<< I'm all ears.

load a layout, and then "locally" turn on toolbars<< I'm going to delicate this evening and most likely mourning in giving this a go. The problem might be getting the toolbars in the proper position.

This may be my longest reply yet ... Does any of this help close the loop? Are we talking all the same thing now ...?<
I gave you a bag of ???? to work with hoping and trying to put my issue out there so I could get help. I needed to know if he issue was technical or me. It was both. There is not a better way to display my issues than what you did for me. Your longest response??? My best help!!!

Close the loop. I'm afraid not! We need to convince Opus that what we are talking about here will take Opus to a whole new leave. And even thoght I just bout a new upgrade I woulf be ready for another tomorrow. Opus was it all except for:

  1. Dedicated Listers (As above)
  2. Listers based on programs your in. ( With dedicated Listers this might be an added feature)
  3. Control of the Content Menu. (This item might be there I just need to do some reading.)

Thanks to all that helped bring this to a sad but accurate conclusion.
Thanks to steje for a well thought out and time consuming response. And thanks to Opus for making this forum so effective for all.

Bob