Folder don't refresh after rename or delete files

Leo, just sent you log files in a PM.

Thanks for the log.

This part is interesting:

Change 4 to D:\Meus Documentos\MÚSICAS\Mp3\Sonete\15.txt Change 5 to D:\Meus Documentos\Músicas\Mp3\Sonete\5844.txt

The first line is the "old name" as reported to Opus and the second line is the "new name."

Note that they disagree on the case of the path: MÚSICAS vs Músicas

Note also that there is an accented character in the part where the lines disagree.

The conflicting case stuff is a known issue with some filesystems and one Opus tries to work around. The problem is knowing that Ú and ú are the same character, which is more complex than it may seem due to the the way Unicode and locales work.

If Opus does a simple upper-case (or lower-case) on both characters then they still don't match each other. To be completely correct it would need to apply the same locale rules as are used within the filesystem driver (or whatever it is that's generating the two paths that the OS reports to Opus).

Depending on the locale, the rules for comparing and upper/lower-casing characters change...

I'll pass this theory on to GPSoftware and see what they think.

By the way, which filesystem is your D-drive using?

If it's a local drive, is it FAT32 or NTFS? You can tell via My Computer if you right-click the columns header and add the File System column.

Hi, Thanks.

The filesystem is NTFS. The D-drive is an partition of my Hard Disc (250 MB). Is used to mp3 and other important files. My SO is in C:.

This issue don't occur ever (but occur many times). Now the same folder is used with perfect refresh. Dopus is now detect any change very well. But the problem every comming by time. When the folder don't refresh and I close Dopus by tray icon right-click and re-open, the problem is resolved, but at the time return again.

Your thing is interesting (Upper-case and Low-case). The original folder name is Upper-case. But now dopus is detecting changes, and I don't change anyone. This occur by a time, then the problem comming again.

Thanks by your help. I'll stand by solution. I will change de U-case folder name to low-case. If occur this problem again I'll post here. Post here the response of GPSoftware. An update is good idea.

Thanks for all.

Hi Leo, I have discovered the folow issues:

If I have the saved default lister with the folder:
D:\Meus Documentos\MÚSICAS\Mp3\Sonete
and I rename the "MÚSICAS" folder to "Músicas" (Ú and ú)
(In the saved lister is "MÚSICAS" but in filesystem the
real name is "Músicas")
Close the Directory Opus and open again, the changes make in this folder
don't will be detected.

If I folow these actions, but with "MUSICAS" and "Musicas" (U and u)
The change of files are detected.

I believe that the problem is caused by Ú and ú like you have posted. In english don't use these characters, but in portuguese is many usual.

This fact is importan: I have make this test to detect the conflict with these characters, but the problem with "don't refresh" is with normal work (without rename anyone folder), simply work with the folder ever with "MÚSICAS" folder in upper-case and many times the "don't refresh" occur. I have this problem with other folders, but it had never observed these characters.

I believe that already we have sufficiently tips to GPSoftware discover the problem, perhaps to it and who knows to correct in the next update.

If possible, ask for they to place an option in the configurations so that the standalone image viewer to that when he will be closed select the current image automatically. This would be interesting.

Sorry for the poor English.

I will be waiting new features.

Thank you for all.

Errata: In the previous post the (250 MB) is (250 MB )

Please Sorry,

My Hard Disc is Samsung (250 GB )

Well, I doubt this behavior coming from special characters. I mostly use English path names through all of my directories. And for the case that I have to use German, I usually "escape" the umlauts like "Ä = AE" or "Ü = UE".

However, the problem appear though.

W@ng: See PM and let me know if that solves it.

[quote="goiano"]If I have the saved default lister with the folder:
D:\Meus Documentos\MÚSICAS\Mp3\Sonete
and I rename the "MÚSICAS" folder to "Músicas" (Ú and ú)
(In the saved lister is "MÚSICAS" but in filesystem the
real name is "Músicas")
Close the Directory Opus and open again, the changes make in this folder
don't will be detected.[/quote]
Yes, that reproduces it perfectly.

It also means you can avoid the problem by re-saving the layout with the correct case for now.

A fix for this is coming but I'm not sure if it will be in the next release or not. Since it requires changes which affect a lot of different things it needs testing for a while to make sure it doesn't cause bigger problems.

So please go with the workaround for now -- re-saving the layout if any saved paths with accented characters change case -- but be assured that a fix is being worked on thanks to your debug info and repro steps.

As for W@ng's issue, that one is due to another problem which will definitely be fixed in the next update. We've been discussing the problem outside of the forum and found a way to reproduce it easily. That then made it possible to fix, and the fix was fairly simple, so it will be included in the next release.

Hi Leo,

I will wait for the solution of this problem.

In any case I am very grateful for their help.

Thank you very much.

Hi Leo, I have news about this problem. See the image below:


That matches what I found.

The code will be improved but it touches a lot of areas and thus needs to be quite well tested after the change to make sure nothing is broken.

It's also not simple to get completely right. There is no API in Windows to say "compare these two strings in the same way that this harddrive will." NTFS drives created with different versions of Windows actually do case-insensitive comparisons using different rules (which are written into the drive itself, not the OS, so two HDDs on the same computer may apply different rules and there is no API to access those rules). With Network drives there's no way at all to know exactly which rules will be applied at the server... So it's actually impossible to make it work perfectly with some really obscure characters/languages...

...but your examples are quite simple (and not obscure!) compared to the worse-case scenarios, so they are definitely solvable. It'll just take some time to make the change and test it.

I wanted to add that I also experience an issue when I rename files and none of my folders/filenames have any special characters. I'm renaming files over the network. After I rename them, I see 2 files with the same name. I have to hit F5 to get rid of the duplicate file in the list.

That could be because the network server isn't sending the change. See the FAQ about it to see if anything in there is relevant.

I am pretty much using all default options. I haven't really started to tinker with all the options available. I verified that detect external changes is enabled. The network share is on a linux server, I just read what was stated about the issues with Samba and notifications. But here's the flaw with that FAQ. If I rename the file from another machine running Windows through Microsoft explorer, I never see this issue. So trying to blame Linux/Samba is flawed, DO is just not handling this scenario correctly. So its either a bug in DO, or DO should implement something to avoid this issue. Lets assume it is a Samba issue, well then DO should be automatically doing a refresh after performing a rename. After all, the user should always see what he expects, which certainly is not 2 duplicate files in the list.

Thank you,

Part of the problem is that Samba is likely to only be tested against Explorer so unless Opus does exactly what Explorer does (which isn't documented) things can still go wrong through no fault of Opus.

(Although I don't know if that is what's happening here... I'm just saying, "it works in Explorer" doesn't mean a lot as everything is tested against Explorer. Heck, there have been preliminary versions of Explorer which broke against Samba (and other non-MS SMB servers) and meant Microsoft had to go back to the old way of doing things, so even Explorer can be affected.)

I could equally say that Opus works fine against Windows network shares -- and Opus has no idea about which OS is on the other end of the network and doesn't do anything different for different servers -- so the problem must be Samba. :slight_smile: In reality it could be either program doing something wrong but, at the end of the day, Opus is just using the Windows API which Samba is trying to emulate.

Anyway... FWIW, I have used Opus against Samba shares and not had a problem renaming files so it should be possible to fix things. Make sure it's a recent version of Samba (newer versions are much, much better than older ones), maybe check that it's one which handles Unicode properly, and check its configuration file for how often it sends change notifications (or if it sends them at all).

[quote]Part of the problem is that Samba is likely to only be tested against Explorer so unless Opus does exactly what Explorer does (which isn't documented) things can still go wrong through no fault of Opus.

Yeah that would be a big problem, considering that DO is supposed to be a replacement for Explorer, so you'd think you'd be testing it not only against Windows machines, but against other OSs implementing Samba as well.

When it comes to almost everything in life, it's all about perception. And in the case of your application, you can jump up and down all you want and say hey, it's Samba's fault, but in the end, it still boils down to a customers perception of your software. And when it comes to interacting with various systems, applications, OSs, well the fact is at some point you have to include workarounds to over come the short comings of these "other" systems/code.[/quote]

BTW, I wanted to make sure we're clear on the rename issue. After the file rename, the name I see IS the new name. I just see 2 files in the list in DO with the same name.

So if I've in a folder that contains 1 file named OLD.txt and I try to rename it to NEW.txt I'll see 2 files with the name NEW.txt. When I hit F5 I then only see 1 file.

Opus is not my application. This is a user-run support forum.

Opus is tested against all kinds of things, including Samba shares where, in my experience, it generally works if the Samba share is behaving.

I'm not saying what you are seeing is definitely Samba's fault. I don't know. But there are problems in this area which some versions/configurations of Samba do cause so it makes sense to look at those known issues first.

Even if it is Opus's fault, how do you expect anyone to fix it without any investigation of what's behind the problem? You seem not to want to bother investigating those things and instead just want to say it's Opus's fault as if attributing blame will magically solve the problem.

As I said, Opus works with Samba in general. If it isn't working with a particular Samba server then the reason why needs to be investigated. If something is discovered which could be improved on Opus's end then it surely will be, but without investigation on your end, just knowing that Opus + your particular Samba server that nobody else has access to doesn't work isn't anything to go on.

If you try the things suggested in this thread, and in the FAQ, and it still doesn't work then we can investigate further, but if you just want to argue about which piece of software is probably at fault without actually trying any of the suggestions or debugging steps then I don't see the point of this discussion.

I pointed to a FAQ which describes how to enable the notify_debug setting in Opus to help understand what's happening when change notifications are missed. That's a good first step if you want to get to the bottom of what's going wrong.


People on this forum are quite active in trying to reproduce problems for other users... So if you go through the FAQ related suggestions and provide some qualitative info (basic stuff like Linux and Samba versions and possibly config file contents), you'll probably find some folks here trying to help. GPsoftware in turn make huge efforts to add options that are often times relevant to only a small subset of users, but the first step is usually helping others help you... :slight_smile: