How to... define menu item as default (selected)

Help & Support
1

BACKGROUND: as a new user I'm trying to get DOpus to behave as much as possible as Windows Explorer (interface wise) so anyone in our organisation can move easily between DOpus equipped and standard Windows machines and find that most primary functions are accessed the same way. DOpus thus becomes a "Super Explorer", not an entirely alien application

QUESTION: How can one define an item on the drop-down menus to be the default selection (as per Explorer), that is if I hit ALT-F to drop down the file menu, I'd like to set one of the suboptions as the selected default, so if I press ENTER immediately that function is executed. e.g. in Windows Explorer the default file-menu item is the context menu (usually "New") - hitting ENTER after dropping down the File menu will expand the "New" submenu (giving options for new folder, new shortcut and a list of filetypes to create). Another example would be the edit menu; I'd like to set "Undo" as the default selection so if you hit "ALT-E" then "ENTER" an undo is performed.

Better still I'd like some sort of config file that magically makes DOpus work just like explorer, so that this can be used as base setting and then extra goodies and functions would be added on top. We often have to use client machines that would not have Dopus installed and there's nothing worse than being totally lost trying to use an alternative file browser; most of the basic UI features of Explorer are pretty good and in most cases there's no real reason to want to change them - it's extra functionality that's desirable, not an alien replacement for existing features.

cheers!

2

I don't think Explorer has a concept of "default items" for each menu, it just seems to automatically select the first item when you open a menu using the keyboard.

Opus doesn't do this but it probably should. (My bet is nobody noticed/pointed-out that Explorer did it until now. I can't see any reason for Opus not to mimic this behaviour.)

I created a toolbar a while ago which made Opus look like Explorer but it was mainly cosmetic and I didn't go through and copy all the (sub-)menus from Explorer and check all the hotkeys were the same. (Hotkeys do seem pretty much the same as Explorer so maybe there's no work needed in that area.)

Recreating the menus and toolbars of Explorer shouldn't take long. Most of the items are already there, in the right places and, from the default config, I think you just need to move/add a very small number of menu items, delete all the extra items/menus, move the Path toolbar up to the top, and turn off Tabs.

3

I've moved some menu items around to match Explorer as you say (I figured that one out!), and you're right in that explorer seems just to highlight the first item rather than it being a "default", except that I expect the first item is chosen specifically for the reason that it should be the default (you can't compete with the thousands of developers and UI experts that Microsoft can afford). I certainly would like to get the same thing happening in Dopus.

I guess my problem is that I really don't want to have to spend time setting up Dopus or learn how to use it. I was just after an explorer replacement that would behave the same way but let me add a bit of extra functionality. In fact the only reason I'm looking at it is that Adobe has withdrawn the DLL that supports display of Photoshop PSD thumbnails in Explorer, whereas these thumbnail images ARE visible in Dopus. I'm sure I'll find lots of uses for what Dopus can do, but primarily I just want to install it and forget it.

4

AQ,

But you don't have to spend time learning how to set up Opus! That's just the point. Just because Opus is the most configurable file manager on the planet doesn't mean you must configure it.

Unlike other file managers, Opus essentially works directly out-of-the box. There is rarely any need to edit buttons, menus and so on.

Don't be confused by the 'coders' on this forum:) They like fiddling with the program just because it 'CAN' be edited and fiddled with. But, for the average user, there is no need.

All the toolbar buttons have tool-tips and all the standard functions you would expect to work in an Explorer-like fashion (such as drag and drop etc).

Yes you do have to learn something but you have to do that with every program you use! If you've mastered the complications of PhotoShop and Illustrator, Opus will be a doddle for you!

5

Yes, and no, Greg.

What you say about DOpus and us, its fiddlers who get satisfaction out of making it sing and dance, is certainly true.

But you are overlooking AQ's wish to provide a transparent move from an Explorer-only PC to another with DOpus, for people who really don't want to be bothered with the fact the Explorer's File menu starts with 'New', while the DOpus version starts with 'Open new lister', followed by 'New'.

Of course, with relatively little effort, if AQ is inclined, he can tailor DO to look and work like Explorer, but although it is surely very usable, it won't look like Explorer out of the box.

I wonder how difficult it would be to provide an automated process to switch backwards and forwards between an Explorer clone, and a DO powerpack? Could it be done with a single toggle button?

6

That's exactly it; and what's really important is making it easy to regularly switch between using a machine with DOpus to a machine with Explorer - it should be seamlessly easy. I've got 3 primary users and 9 machines, but we've got off-site clients who won't be using DOpus and we also provide telephone support (you can imagine the possible problems that might cause). I'm evaulating Dopus and we'll want to standardise on it, but not if it's going to make moving back and forwards with "normal" PC's difficult. Since DOPus does everything that Explorer does I would have hoped that those common functions could be made an exact emulation; we can then ice the cake with all those tasty DOpus goodies.

7

I've recreated the Explorer toolbars. When I get some more time I'll finish making some other configuration changes and upload an export of the settings to the site for people to use.

8

That's very kind of you! Fanks.

9

Not sure I really see the logic of this. If the menus and toolbars are exact clones of Explorer how do you propose to actually access the "extra functionality" that you say you want Opus for?

10

[quote="jon"]Not sure I really see the logic of this. If the menus and toolbars are exact clones of Explorer how do you propose to actually access the "extra functionality" that you say you want Opus for?[/quote]Hello Jon...

All it should take is one extra button to toggle back and forth. This should not get in anyone's way, in the environment AQ is describing.

11

With respect, Bernard and AQ, yes you could do this but it's really difficult to understand why? Just spend 2 seconds reading the menu that's displayed in Opus. One soon gets used to it. You are not using Explorer so why clone the simple toolbar. Yes of course we designed Opus to give you this ability to do this if you really wish but if you do so on a regular basis then you miss out on so many of the features in Opus that were the reason you used it over Explorer in the first place:)

Every program is subtly different and you just have to initially learn what it does as you use it rather than shoehorn it back into the box you brain is limited to from prior experience.

And for a designer such as AQ, being the simple person that I am, I just fail understand how he copes with using Adobe products etc (I have great difficulty) because every time they put out a new version of PhotoShop or Illustrator etc or even Acrobat, the interface has been almost completely changed so you have to spend ages working out how to do what you could do simply before. (In Corel's PSP 10 for example it takes several hours to workout how to just draw a simple color filled box!) But, in the end you are glad you did learn the new program because of the new features you found in the process, which is after all why you actually bought the program in the first place:)

12

I'm divided here...I understand the eason why AQ wants what he'slooking for and so we shoul try and help (kudos Nudel). But at the same time, my opinion of the 'why would you want to' question from Greg and Jon is based on the fact that I most certainly use much extra functionality from Dopus... and when I switch to another computer at work that does not have Opus intalled (which I must do often) I get frustrated pretty quickly... forget navigating around Explorer, that's no problem. But there's no way to navigate around the loss of functionality... I wind up huffing and puffing and wanting to throw the keyboard through the window.

So if Opus is mostly configured to emulate Explorer, what happens when even only one button get's unleashed on the unsuspecting masses that does something Opus-ey cool, and someone goes back to an 'Explorer' box?

13

First up, full marks to Nudel, who is doing something to solve AQ's problem. I'm sure AQ will be grateful.

Now, as to the philosphical question, face it folks! We who chose DOpus in the first place, we're different! The power it puts at our fingertips is, to us, like a heady brew. It intoxicates, it excites! (I almost said it's better than sex, but even I know where to draw that line. :smiley: )

Sadly, however, for Greg and Jon, who would wish it were otherwise, not everybody is turned on by a well-crafted piece of software. To the vast majority of users, particularly business users for whom the computer is a means to an end, rather than an end in itself, any change, even a marked improvement, is to be viewed with suspicion, a 'Why can't they leave well enough alone?', a wish to just get on with the job as it always was.

As someone who has been in the computing profession for over 40 years, most of it as a TWI-accredited trainer, I can vouch, that whenever Microsoft brings out a new version of Office, there is a flurry of activity preparing and delivering refresher courses, to users who need their hands held during the transition from one version to the next.

I am fascinated contemplating the problems due to confront the users of Office 12 when it at last emerges. I understand that its radically different toolbar arrangement is not going to permit reversion to a 'classic' setup. What fun!

So, yes AQ. I can understand why you want to do what you describe. I can understand that you want to have DOpus on every PC, so that those who appreciate it can take advantage of it, while those who do not are none the wiser. And it is surely part of the wonder of DOpus that it can masquerade as a sheep, while we all know quite well it is a wolf!

14

Now that is a sane statement !
I'm not at all certain what Nudel is up to, but I'm just interpreting this at ground value.

In explorer Alt+F selects the first item of the submenu.
In DOpus the first item is NOT selected?? Yes ??? At least this is true on my old system.

So what we want is to do is an Alt+F Enter ?
How do we know that Alt+F has completed its' process ?
This kind of thing is common in 4NT batch files that attempt to use the keystack command.

Great idea, but ......

This time, DOpus isn't the wolf .
My very humble opinion only .

:opusicon: porcupine

[/quote]

15

Don't get me wrong - I don't mean to make Dopus look exactly like explorer or to hide the extra functionality, what I'm saying is this : if there is a function in DOpus that does exactly the same thing as a function in Explorer then it should be accessable in the same way.

My example of keystrokes to access the 'new folder" command in the file menu is a practical consideration of efficiency, as is any keyboard shortcut. If one is in the habit of hitting CTRL-C to "copy" and CTRL-X to "paste" then there's a serious efficiency problem if you have to occasionally use an application which uses a different shortcuts for these same tasks. I'm in the habit of hitting "ALT-F -> Enter" for a new folder, and making new folder is something I have to do in both Explorer and Dopus. Using keys is faster than having to visually identify controls and click on them (I'm sure we all agree on that) so a minor interface difference can be an annoying time-waster.

Since Explorer is on every windows computer it makes sense for DOpus to follow Explorer and not the other way around. There may very well be single specific features of DOpus that are attractive to certain users - e.g. FTP, previewing graphics, and If these users can feel comfortable immediately I reckon you can sell more copies of DOpus. If (like me) you have to use a dozen different applications a day, on different machines, you begin to appreciate any elements of consistency between them. So I'm imagining DOpus as a "explorer Plus" - not hiding the layout tabs and extra buttons and menu items, just fitting them into a base layout that would be familiar to an Explorer user; and in this respect the non-visible interface (i.e shortcut keys) is more important than the visual controls.