Opus in Server 2008 R2 Web Core

I there,

We're about to deploying some Windows Server 2008 R2 Web Core boxes and i thought it would be nice to have a file explorer for file management and other stuff. I remembered Opus from the Amiga days and i tried to give it a go. I downloaded the demo version, installed it but after a reboot it didn't run.

Server Core's interface is a command line so we have to start it all from there. I started dopus.exe but an error pops saying it can't start because AVIFIL32.ddl is missing. I tried dopusx64.exe and nothing happens. I fired Task Manager and this one is there, but it seems that it is a 32Bit program called Directory Opus 9 x64 Helper, some background task i guess.

I did a search in my Windows 7 64 box and there it was that AVIFIL32.ddl, uploaded to the server but it didn't work. It says now that "the application was unable to start correctly (0xc000007b".

Does Opus support Server Core? Is there a way to run it?

TIA

Server Core is a very cut-down version of Windows which isn't intended to run local-user/GUI applications like Opus. A huge thing that it is missing is the shell (Explorer), so I doubt Opus would work with it.

I expect file management in that scenario is meant to be done using shared folders over the network, with a file manager installed on a client machine.

Ok, i know all the advantages of Core versions of Windows 2008 R2. These servers will be installed in a remote datacenter so there's no shared folders, everything will managed through the RDC via command line scripts, like it's supposed to. I know that the shell seems to be missing but programs like WinRAR 64 run perfectly on it with all the Explorer file boxes. Here is a screen shot of it.

But i understand that Opus doesn't support these versions Core Versions of Windows Server.
Maybe in a future release?

If you want it, ask GPSoftware for it (that's the GPSoft support page; this is a user-to-user forum), but I can't see it being something many other people would ask for.

Surely the point of a cut-down Server Core OS is to not run client apps like Opus? If Microsoft have removed their own file manager and desktop I think it shows the Server Core versions of Windows are not intended to be used interactively at all.

It would probably also be a lot of work to ensure and test that Opus doesn't depend on things missing from the stripped-down Core versions of Windows, although I have not analysed exactly which components are missing and it could turn out to be easier than I think.

Hi,

Did anyone tried to do it? Install DOpus on server core?

I have installed 10 today and it did not run cos AVIFIL32.dll was missing, after copying the file to c:\windows\system32 opus did not as for the file anymore - it just crashed. I am wondering - next step would be to look what cosed it and keep copying/replacing missing files until I will get DOpus working, but that probably will be quite a task, so - I wanted to resurrect the topic... maybe someone did that before me with success?

Why are you running Server Core if you want to run interactive applications on top of it?

The whole idea seems wrong and trying to get Opus to work on Server Core seems like a waste of time. To get Opus (or most other interactive apps which use a lot of Win32 components) you will end up copying most of the normal install of Windows back on the machine, in which case you might as well simply install a normal version of Windows Server instead of a Core version.

The entire point of the Core version is that it has components removed that programs like Opus depend on.

Well - I have no idea how much DOpus depends on the Windows components. From the look only I was was that it is possible not too many. I can see you are admin here but then I am quite sure you are wrong saying that 'I will end up installing most of the normal install of Windows', even if my aim would be to run full blown windows explorer I would probably have to install loads but still not most of the components. So I should assume you know much more than me but as your answer is wrong lets just stick to the question - have anyone done this before?

Now I am testing the system and want to install DOpus, maybe I will give up on it altogether, for now question why is answered (below), need find up how. :stuck_out_tongue:

I want to use Windows Core for security and the price (as Hyper-V is free) but still need something to move virtual machine discs around, maintain backups etc. and I just want to explore possibility of installing something more sophisticated than Total Commander. :slight_smile:

Microsoft's guidelines for developing software that runs on Server Core state, explicitly: "There should be no dependencies on the GUI. The calling code must not require the GUI to be displayed locally." That rules out the entire class of programs you are trying to run on Server Core. What you are trying to do isn't supported by Microsoft or by the developers of the programs you're trying to run.

Security is a trade-off with convenience. Taking Server Core and adding back the shell and other components nets you little security and a lot of inconvenience.

What you're doing makes no sense. Opus (like most interactive productivity software, one way or another) depends on the Windows shell being available for starters. Half the point of Server Core is it doesn't have the shell installed.

As soon as you start adding major components back into the mix you now have a terrible combination: A completely unsupported OS/component mixture, not sanctioned by Microsoft and not tested against by any third-party software, and an attack surface that isn't much better than normal Windows Server or Workstation.

Even if you find some combination of re-installed components that seems to work, any time something goes wrong you will be left wondering if it's because some part of the OS is missing. (That doesn't just go for Opus, it goes for any UI program you try to run on top of Server Core.) And if you try to ask for support when something goes wrong you'll end up wasting other people's time if the problem turns out to be due to missing components.

Each time any piece of software you run gets updated, it might break because the update adds dependencies which you are missing. People writing interactive software can and should be able to assume that an interactive version of Windows is there to support their programs.

It's a crazy, contradictory idea, like trying to add a cockpit to a tiny UAV. :slight_smile:

This is why I do not like your responses, not only you are not answering the question but keeping saying 'you are wrong' but saying things like that. How can you know how much I actually need to install to have limited DOpus functionality, how installing even few services and many dlls will get all way up to 1000's components and many many services that full version of windows have. If it is not much better then its almost same. So - simply - you are saying that Microsoft removed ONLY some parts of explorer in core version. After adding them - we are where we been at the beginning.

You should start here, but now after some of the misinformation that you provided before I cannot be sure if you are right, but it is a good point to start my own research.

As for the testing and updates, I will do my own testing (at least for the compatibility) and I am sane enough to not do any upgrades on DOpus side and be very careful when upgrading the Windows itself - if I will decide to go that route at all.

Well, in my opinion that just being argumentative, but then, maybe you do see it that way. :slight_smile:

I will do some testing tomorrow and if I will fail I will definitely use Total Commander, believe me, but some aspects of safety will benefit from having file manager applications on the actual hyperviser machine, I am currently on my quest to find out what I shall choose - as I own DOopus and like it more and would have to buy Total Commander my preference is here.

The bottom line is, there are many, many GUI programs that do work on core version of the windows, even more, are developed to work on it. I just want to test couple more. Maybe it will not work, maybe it is actually something not wise, but I will not know before I will test by myself. In parts of email that I can verify you get few facts wrong, so it would be wise to not take your word on the others. Question remains, open - have anyone tried that before?

Well, it's your computer and your time, so good luck, but you are on your own and what you're doing is strongly discouraged. Don't say you weren't warned and don't expect any support for Windows, Opus or any other software under a Frankenstein environment consisting of Server Core with some components of full-blown Windows copied over and bodged back in.

(How do you even know how to install those missing Windows components? Just copy some DLLs over, regsvr32 on them, and hope for the best? It's not that simple, I'm afraid. That's ignoring the legal side of things, too. Hyper-V server may be free but the components you'll be copying over from full-blown Windows are not. So what you are proposing is not only unsupported by Microsoft, it's unlicensed.)

I'm not sure which facts you think I have wrong, or what you are saying is 'misinformation', or where your proof that I am wrong is. The things I have stated as fact come from the people who made and support the products in question (Windows and Opus; Microsoft and GPSoftware). Facts don't become wrong because you find them inconvenient. :slight_smile: The opinions and advice I've given based on those facts are not huge jumps of logic, at least if you have some knowledge of software development.

But, hey, knock yourself out and enjoy hammering lots of square pegs into round holes even though there are perfectly good square holes that you've chosen not to use. :slight_smile:

I have pointed where you are wrong in my previous post to which you responded, look I quoted one sentence, do not think one can be more precise, and how one can still be not sure. Do you just write posts for sake of writing? Regarding to 'where is my proof' question, look here please: blogs.technet.com/b/security/arc ... nefit.aspx

Do you really think I do expect support for this configuration? I seriously would not, even that Dell provided support to any crazy idea that I had in the past (including installing my custom software in their labs). And regarding the support from small software vendors - I did work out long time ago - that the best way to get decent one is to hire your own developers.

Still, very good point about the licensing, I think that will be the reason why (this time) I will go for software that much less relay on Windows features.

I so do not agree with your last sentence, I am not even sure if you can say something like that while not knowing what problems I want to solve with this so called 'Frankenstein', let's just call it EOT, shall we?

The one sentence you quoted was just a qualitative and subjective opinion, but one I still stand behind.

All the descriptions of Server Core that I can find are extremely vague about which components are and aren't in the product (something which also seems to change over time, with MS realising stuff was required and adding it back in, e.g. parts of .Net), but the things they make crystal clear are stated on MSDN: Server Core for Windows Server 2008 R2

[quote="Microsoft"][ul][li]There is no Windows shell and very limited GUI functionality (the Server Core interface is a command prompt).[/li]
[li]There is limited managed code support in Server Core.[/li]
[li]There is limited MSI support (unattended mode only).[/li][/ul][/quote]

The brief PDF you link also mentions IE, Outlook Express and Media Player, but if you're not leaving yourself logged into the server and/or not running any of those tools and services then I don't see what difference it really makes just having the code on the HDD but not running*. You can remove those tools (or at least their front-ends) from standard Windows installs anyway, and the parts of the underlying (non-front-end) components of IE and Media Player are required by parts of Opus, too (although you can probably get by without them, I'm not 100% sure).

(*Okay, there is a benefit that you know none of the code you are running has a hidden dependency on those components and loads them without you knowing -- instead it might break or have reduced functionality -- but you are now talking about running exactly the kind of GUI code which does have dependencies on those kinds of components, and adding back whichever components are required. Microsoft exclude their own file manager and its dependencies from this mix, yet we're talking about adding it back and another file manager on top. It seems to me that that largely defeats the purpose of running Server Core. You are adding back in exactly the things which were removed. It may be beneficial if you only have to add a tiny subset of those things, but from the descriptions of what Server Core has removed, and what we're talking about adding back, I don't see that being the case.)

Once you go adding back the Windows shell, and the components that it in turn depends on, where do you suppose the major differences will be between what you would have and a standard Windows Server install? What will be the substantive security benefits of that setup over a well-configured install of the normal Windows Server?

Maybe there is something I am missing but the benefits seem undefined but also quite limited in scope, while requiring a lot of effort to reach that point. Doesn't seem a worthwhile combination to me. That's just my opinion and not something that I can claim is a fact, because it's based on subjective value judgements, but equally I don't see how that opinion can be called false or disinformation without explaining the reasoning for saying so.

And it still is not clear to me how you would go about adding back the Windows shell and other components missing from Server Core, given that the only installer for those components is Windows itself.

I'm sure it is all technically possible, just as it would be technically possible to take a standard Windows Server install and start chopping components out of it, but I don't see what makes it worth the effort or anything that even gives a vague estimate of value of such a setup. (The information I can find about Server Core itself is vague enough as it is; info about Server Core + shell + whatever else might be needed seems non-existent.)

The best thing I can find from Microsoft is their list of APIs which work in Windows Core, but that is next to useless for judging any of this, to be honest. It needs to be organised by API category and components at the very least, and it needs to include information on COM objects and other OS components which are not accessed directly by APIs, as well as any limitations loaded on top of the standard APIs which are in the list.