Custom File Sort Order for paperless office

Help & Support
1

Hi forum,

I've been working virtually paperless for like 5 years by now.

This means, for all my present and past projects, there is no paper folder but only a Windows file folder.

Therefore, especially with old/large/complicated projects it can become difficult to keep track what has happened at what stage of the project.

Normally I use "sort by date, youngest topmost" (sometimes also "sort by creation date") when working with project folders. This however doesn't give a proper overview of the project timeline, especially if older files are just, say, commented and re-saved, which means that afterwards they jump to the top of the file list.

Now if there would be a possibility to have a "permanent custom sort order" for each folder (compare the "custom sort" view in FastStone Image Viewer, with re-sort by drag-and-drop support -- great!) then I could have all the files in my project in a fixed order like in a paper folder, such that I could easily see what document "happened" before/after which other document.

In other words: It would be a killer to have one more folder view where you could change the sort order of the files by drag-and-drop INSIDE that folder. Additional files dropped onto that folder initially should be inserted and sorted according to CREATION date.

What is everybody's opinion regarding this feature idea?

Thanks,
David.P

2

Are the filenames outside of your control? If not, why not name each file starting with the date it was first created in YYYYMMDD format? Then they sort themselves in all programs, not just one. e.g. 20061207_Moo.doc

For Office documents you should also be able to sort by the "Document Created" column which is preserved even if the file's creation-time attribute is changed. No good for other types of files, though. (Images may have an EXIF creation time as well, but that's only good if you only have images to worry about.)

3

Thanks Nudel, yes of course that's possible -- however too complicated. I would end up spending a lot of time naming and re-naming files. It's just not viable since I've got like hundreds of projects/cases and each consists of dozens of files -- that sometimes also would have to be re-arranged to some extent.

Actually the more I think about it the more I realize that this is a killer feature that even could make me move to another software (if it were to be found there).

Same with pictures: One of THE main reasons I quit ACDSee 3.1 after like 8 years in favour of FastStone Image Viewer is the possibility to re-arrange the order of files by drag-and-drop (see also Google Picasa offering that same great feature).

David.P

4

You can make a button which prefixes files with their creation date automatically to save time in the default case, then only have to edit the ones which are wrong.

Of course, if you don't want dates all over your filenames then it's a non-starter. :slight_smile:

What you want seems like a reasonable idea. I know it'd help with the other thread from today/yesterday about sequentially renaming files in an arbitrary order, too. If you haven't already, add it to GPSoft's request database via their web form:

gpsoft.com.au/Support.html

5

Thanks nudel, that's what I'll do.

Here is btw another explanation of that feature from the Apple side of the pond (also only for pictures)

Setting Manual Sort Order

Having your documents in a nice ascending order by filename is great. However, there will be times that you will want to "arrange" your images in a custom order. Perhaps you want to build a PDF Presentation or you want to show the best images at the top and have your just okay images at the bottom. If you had a physical light table, you'd be able to simply drag the images or documents around in the order you wanted. The Bridge works that way too. Even if you pick a specific sort order, you can simply move the images around by dragging them and the Bridge will automatically assume you want a custom sort order. So you don't have to actually go to the Sort menu and choose Manually. You simply drag the files around in the window in the order you want.

6

BTW, XYPlorer will have this feature in its next version as I've been told by the developer Donald Lessau.

David.P

7

Great!

One feature added, several hundred to go before it's even close to being a file manager. :unamused:

8

How come that this reminds me of General Motors [when they still were in business ;] scoffing about small japanese hybrid vehicles.....?

9

I find it extremely rude to advertise a competing product on a support forum - especially as a means of 'persuading' the developers how important a feature request is...

10

Remember that me & Tanis don't work for GPSoft so your analogy should be changed to "people who kind of help out at General Motors...", or something like that...

I think the point is that there's an infinite amount of ideas and features to be implemented and a finite amount of time, so things have to be done according to how useful they are to everyone and how much time they take to do (which takes away time from looking at other features). Whether another program has a feature isn't a huge factor and Opus has thousands of features that no other program has.

If you want something added, argue the case about how useful it is, not that another program has the feature (or will have it in the future).

11

Umm, I don't think i've been advertising something here. The feature discussed is so special, however simple, and at the same time difficult to understand because no one ever had anything like it, that I grasp every straw trying to make clear that this feature actually could make a file manager into a perfectly simple project management / electronic document management solution.

Since I know that you're not the developers, and that there are other channels to submit feature requests, there would not be much point in trying to do this here.

Btw. if Tanis as one snappy shark finds it is already "extremely rude" :confused: just to mention another product, what would you call big shots like "....before it's even close to being a file manager"?

Anyway, my point was, I'd "possibly" even quit DOpus and move to some other file manager if it only offered said feature [as well as the great thumbnail and preview features of Dopus of course;]. This is because plain file management, folder overview and file preview is my (very personal!) main concern for a file manager.

Regards,
David.P


(click to enlarge;)

12

The developers are here and spend plenty of time reading the forums. So my point stands.

I'd call it sarcasm.

Perhaps I wasn't clear or direct enough. To avoid confusion, this is not a recommendation, nor a request for debate. Advertising competing products here is (especially with a link) not acceptable. Understood?

13

Wow, you're being exceptionally nice once more :open_mouth: 8)

Anyway, although it was definitely not an advertisement since I'm in no way associated with any file manager company [remember, I'm an DOpus power user -- as well as I've been posting DOpus screenshots over there at X*plorer without being hit over the head]

--- feel free to remove the link to that other product from my [and from your!] posts.

Regards,
David.P

14

Posting a link to a competing product is advertising no matter what the intention - that's clear and obvious to anyone.

The implication from your post was "add this feature or I will change to another product" - it certainly added nothing to improve our understanding of your request (which is your reasoning for posting it) - the implied threat is distasteful and unneccesary. The developers are very open to well thought out and described feature requests. I doubt very much that they respond well to such threats though.

You did not need to link to this product (which, it should be noted, doesn't have the feature either) to fully explain your request.

Already done.

15

Come on, calm down just a little… :frowning: 8)

You can call it advertising if the intention is selling something -- which intention I definitely don't have.

Oh well… :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :confused:

Of course I didn't mean to and didn't express any "threatening" to anyone. What I said simply was "this feature [is so important to me that it] could make me move on to another product.

This is because it is my strong conviction that said feature
"re-arrange the sort order of files
in details mode with the mouse and keep
this custom sort order in between sessions"
is an absolute killer feature for professional electronic document management. It already has proven to be a killer in "slide" programs like Google Picasa and FastStone ImageViewer, and it will also be there in the next version of a not-so well known file manager from Cologne... :smiley: :frowning: 8)

This is VERY well-known to me, and I'm quite sure that my feature request qualified like so from the very beginning. Of course I have sent this feature request also directly to the developers, as I have been doing since 2003.

For example, I've suggested the ActiveX viewer and floating tooltip thumbnails in July 2003, PDF thumbnail generation and b/w tiff file preview antialiasing in April 2004, as well as the new File Filter Control Field in April 2005 --- to name but a few feature requests I had handed directly to, and discussed at length, with the developers. Not to mention that these feature requests actually have been implemented in the software 8).

Cheers,
David.P

PS: Here's some more yet to come: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: 8) 8) 8)
[ul][li]The new "File Filter Control" seems not to work when switching to Flat View™.[/li]
[li]Make the normal find dialog usable as well inside file collections.[/li]
[li]How about the possibility to search for files "inside previous search results"![/li]
[li]Possibility to search for occurrences of text inside preview pane while html/mht-document is being displayed.[/li]
[li]*.eml file preview seemingly not working although *.eml-files are equivalent to *.mht-files, preview of which does work. [resolved][/li]
[li]When copying/moving files by dragging them over toolbar buttons, cursor "+" sign and copy/move behaviour seems not always consistent[/li]
[li]Automatically highlight first occurrence of search term when searching for text inside the preview pane![/li]
[li]Even better: "Find-as-you type"-highlighting (as in Mozilla Firefox Browser) when searching for text inside the preview pane: just by starting to type on the keyboard while preview pane has the input focus. Killer feature![/li]
[li]Different thumbnail sizes when lister in Thumbnail View Mode (here: smaller thumbnails for better overview) as compared to when lister in Details View Mode (here: very large floating thumbnail preview inside the tooltip for better recognition of file contents).[/li]
[li]Suppress preview generation inside the preview pane (because it slows down the opening of large files) when the respective file is being double clicked in the lister.[/li]
[li]Enable Ctrl+C for "Copy" inside the preview pane for all file types.[/li]
[li]Enable placement of preview pane separately on second monitor (as a separate window that can be maximized).[/li]
[li]It seems not possible to assign (multipage) TIFF with an external ActiveX viewer (e.g. AlternaTIFF) inside the preview pane, although the respective viewer is there and working. Dopus instead still continues to use its internal TIFF viewer[/li]
[li]Possibility to set the sort order of folders always alphabetically, even when file sort order is set to "sort by date".[/li][/ul]

16

It works fine for me. I use it all the time. What doesn't work for you? Are you sure you're not doing something like filtering Files and Folders, and filtering out the parent folders and thus everything below them?

[quote]# Make the normal find dialog usable as well inside file collections.

How about the possibility to search for files "inside previous search results"![/quote]

The first feature would give you the second. Not sure if it's been requested (via GPSoft support) beyond some brief discussion in the forums.

Not sure why Ctrl-F doesn't work there since it's just IE. Has this been brought up before? I don't remember anyone pointing it out but I haven't looked at the ActiveX stuff for a while so maybe I forgot about it. I'll make sure it's on my list of things to look at in the ActiveX plugin, either way.

That would be cool, I agree.

Not a bad idea, could be done by allowing the {thumbnail} infotip code to take a size argument. But is also something that the viewer pane takes care of to a large degree, I think.

Would you be happy waiting the extra second or so (whatever the double-click time is) for the preview pane to update after single-clicking? I think it'd be annoying, at least for image filetypes which load instantly. Maybe on a per-filetype basis or something.

Which ones does it not work for? Which plugins handle them?

I had a feeling there was a way to do this but I can't find it now so maybe I'm imagining things. I thought there was a way to launch the standalone viewer window but still have it tied to the lister that launched it like the preview pane is. Maybe I'm thinking of the way you can interact with checkbox-mode selection from the viewer. (Press Ctrl-T in the viewer.)

If you've added the .tif extension to the ActiveX viewer then it's probably an incompatibility between my ActiveX plugin and AlternaTIFF. I've been working towards a native multipage-TIFF plugin; there's still a bit more work to do on it but I hope it will fill that feature hole.

17

Haven't you just said that lighttable sort belongs to image management programs?

X.

18

Hi nudel,

sorry that it took me such a long time to come back to you. Christmas, and quite a lot of work, you know...

It works fine for me. I use it all the time. What doesn't work for you? Are you sure you're not doing something like filtering Files and Folders, and filtering out the parent folders and thus everything below them? [/quote]

Well that could be one reason. However, Dopus behavior seems not entirely consistent, or at least difficult to understand and handle. If I switch to Flat View first, and then put some expression in the File Filter Box, Dopus acts as expected, and filters the entire list -- even if I filter Files and Folders (as I always seem to do).

If, however, I start the other way round by putting my expression in the File Filter Box, and only then switch to Flat View, Dopus doesn’t catch all respective files all the time. Maybe it does if I only filter files, and not folders, but this is really difficult to check all the time when switching to Flat View.
Anyway, this really is some minor issue for me.

[quote="nudel"] [quote]# Make the normal find dialog usable as well inside file collections.

How about the possibility to search for files "inside previous search results"![/quote]

The first feature would give you the second. Not sure if it's been requested (via GPSoft support) beyond some brief discussion in the forums. [/quote]

I have submitted that feature to the developers as well.

Not sure why Ctrl-F doesn't work there since it's just IE. Has this been brought up before? I don't remember anyone pointing it out but I haven't looked at the ActiveX stuff for a while so maybe I forgot about it. I'll make sure it's on my list of things to look at in the ActiveX plugin, either way. [/quote]

Thanks already for checking this issue.

That would be cool, I agree. [/quote]

The upcoming Mozilla Thunderbird 2.0 has this also for its preview pane. Amazing feature! However probably much more difficult to implement in Dopus because of all the different viewers that are used to display file contents.

Not a bad idea, could be done by allowing the {thumbnail} infotip code to take a size argument. But is also something that the viewer pane takes care of to a large degree, I think. [/quote]

Agreed. Anyway, I have like five different stages of file preview :slight_smile: :

1.) Small; or
2.) large icons show (image) file contents [by Xentient Thumbnails, great!];
3.) on clicking-and-holding the mouse on an (image) file, I get a medium sized preview popup on the Desktop and in file open dialogs [by KO Approach, also great!];
3.) Dopus shows a floating thumbnail of almost any file on mouseover [bloody amazing feature created after my respective feature request in 2003 :D]
4.) on switching to thumbnail mode in Dopus, I get thumbnails for almost every file type [ditto;]
5.) lastly, here comes the Dopus Preview Pane into play.

Would you be happy waiting the extra second or so (whatever the double-click time is) for the preview pane to update after single-clicking? I think it'd be annoying, at least for image file types which load instantly. Maybe on a per-filetype basis or something. [/quote]

I find it annoying sometimes with large PDF files. I double-click on the file, and Adobe Reader must open the file twice -- one copy inside the preview pane, and another one in Adobe Reader. What’s more, if I work on a PDF file in Adobe Acrobat, every time I save the file, Dopus updates the file also in the preview pane -- which sometimes even makes Dopus jump in the foreground and back, which can be somewhat disrupting for my concentration. Well, and double-click times are like in the range of about 300 milliseconds, so the delay for updating the preview pane would not be a problem.

I agree with you however that this feature would be just perfect on a per-filetype basis.

Which ones does it not work for? Which plugins handle them? [/quote]

Ctrl+C for "Copy" inside the preview pane seems not to work for html, mht and eml files, all handled by the ActiveX viewer.

If you've added the .tif extension to the ActiveX viewer then it's probably an incompatibility between my ActiveX plugin and AlternaTIFF. I've been working towards a native multipage-TIFF plugin; there's still a bit more work to do on it but I hope it will fill that feature hole.[/quote]

Yes, I've added the .tif extension to the ActiveX viewer, however AlternaTIFF still does not launch when a TIFF file is clicked on.

Anyway, lastly I’d like to remind once more my currently „most wanted“ feature: The persistent custom file sort for simple but efficient project management / paperless office --- e.g. have the files of a folder in a persistent custom sort order, like in an attorney’s paper file folder.

Cheers,
David.P

19

Hello all,
I've been trying to arrange the files in a custom order in D.O., and to be honest, I was surprized such an advanced program, doesnt offer this option.
For years, I've been using ACDSEE do to so (which does it not only in TN mode but also in detail mode) and then batch rename files numbering them according to my custom sort order.
Is there any way I can do this in D.O.?

20

Not at the moment, no.

Opus always sorts the files according to a criteria (name, size, date, etc.). It doesn't let you move things around, except by changing the attribute(s) which you're sorting by (e.g. renaming a file).