Float separate search

Good point.

I tried turning on Toolbar Search and that does nothing? What is that supposed to do?

Are the doc's for 10.x available yet? And yes, we hate doing docs too...:slight_smile:



As Leo already mentioned the Toolbar Search key simply activates the search field on the toolbar allowing you to immediately enter a search argument there. Not a big advantage over clicking in the search field in my opinion.

(By default the search field follows the Location field on the Location toolbar).

I think I came across this option somewhere, but I just can't find it anymore. :blush: Could you please give me a hint?


Sorry, my mistake. The option is there for the Sync panel but not the Find panel. :frowning:

Ah, right, that's where I saw it. It would be a good option for the Find panel, too... :wink:


FWIW... for those of you who miss the old Find Tool... I'm with you :slight_smile:. And as a side note: I hadn't thought about before, but I'm a big +1 for adding the "Automatically shrink panel" option to the other panel modes...

What I've taken to doing is using Go CURRENT LAYOUT=Find for my <Ctrl+F> hotkey... where the "Find" layout is a resized lister I've saved with no folder tree. For me, this is alot like using the old find tool, and if GPsoft ever allow us to save toolbar states and other file display stuff (I'm thinking folder tab bar on/off, file display border on/off... or better yet, an option for NO FILE DISPLAY AT ALL), then we could skinny down the window profile of our own customized "Find" layouts even more. If we could do this, I might even then create a "Find" toolbar that I would then enable with just a few buttons for file operations that I might commonly do after finding files... and keep a file display in there. Don't know...

Anyhow, the reason I like it better this way than the default behavior of v10's Find Panel popping up attached to my lister...? It's just sort of disruptive for me, as I don't like having my lister or visibility of files messed with (new non-modal messaging drives me nuts because of this). So, this is a decent compromise for me, though there are two things I don't like:

1.) Opening the current folder in a layout (new window) with the Fina Panel turned on doesnt place input focus on the panels "Name Matching" field... it's actually VERY irritating to have to mouse into that field, but it's less irritating than having the Find Panel forced into my current lister.

2.) In v9 I had a folder context menu item that runs find in {F}. This would pre-load multiple "selected" folders that I would click RMB on into the find tool as the source folders to search in... in v10, this still works to pre-load those "selected" folders into the Find Panel... but it doesn't work right when trying to send multiple folders to a Layout like the method above... it'll open a separate lister window for each folder selected. Bummer... but even here, it's better for me to just resort to using the same command as above, then delete the "current" folder from the "Find in" list... and then drag-n-drop the multiple folders I want to search through down into the 'Add folder to search..." area.

None of this is ideal, but again - better for ME than the v10 default behavior of having the panel pop up "in my way".

I guess I don't see the annoyance-difference between something appearing attached to the window, and something appearing on top of the window. Don't they both obscure things and need to be closed/moved/resized?

The good thing about having something attached to the window is it follows the window around and you only have to manage one top-level window/thing.

If I'm doing a Find I usually turn the panel on and then either type in the details, run the find and close the panel (no different to doing the same and closing the Find window, IMO) or, if I think I might want to refine the search and run it again, maximize the window.

@Leo: We traded similar thoughts during the betas - and I'm still not sold :slight_smile:... Yeah, I know you and others may not find it any more or less annoying - but well, I guess some of us just don't like it. But I imagine we're just going to have to live with it - so, I for one will keep trying to find a way of using the new, in similar look and feel to the old.

I think you were counting a bit too much on the "as people use it, they will realize the improved FUNCTIONAL aspects of the panel over the tool, or just get used to it - and miss the tool less" factor... and that there'd be more ppl who would just bemoan the loss of the tool for no other reason than that's the way they "used" to do things. I don't have to tell YOU though that power users in particular can just be a finicky lot... Does it wreck my experience having the panel popup in my current lister? Nah - of course not. But what you find agreeable about just toggling it off and then back on again (if you need to) was also just as easy for ME to do before by clicking away from the tool dialog, and then back onto it again...

Having it "in-lister" is just a bit visually disruptive to me... You're right that one way or another something is going to be obscured - and I just happen to prefer the limited bit of obscuring caused by the the old find tool than having an entire bottom chunk of my file display displaced. Going back to my Find IN {F} example before as a folder context menu item... sometimes I wouldn't even do that rather than just calling up the regular find tool and then dragging several folders into the tool to search them in a multi-folder search. In cases where the folders are at the top and bottom of the visible file list, this is now just a little bit more a hassle with the file list obscured... and I forget I can deal with it by selecting the folders before I call up the find panel. Do I run into that scenario all the time? Not so much... but enough that I notice it, and something makes it feels like I'm clicking around more than I used to in v9.

Either way, with the old floating dialog I could move it around as I saw fit if I really needed to peek at something or be able to select something it was obscuring. And actually... using a layout with the panel now in v10 actually makes that a bit easier as the layout can be saved slightly off-center or up in the corner - or opened on another monitor right from the start - compared to the old find tool dialog where I think it always opened centered :slight_smile:.

Funny too... back in v9, I actually always wanted the results to open right in the Find Window - but ALSO wanted them in a File Collection. Using the Find Panel in a separate window/layout essentially does exactly this... So, I think using the panel in this way can relatively easily provide me the same behavior I always liked about the old find tool, and which my muscle memory is just used to (still - after months of using v10) with the various improvements of the panel itself in v10 still being available to me... Just a few changes would really be needed. For instance, if a layout is saved with the find panel turned on, I'd love for the name matching field to get focus by default or something. Would also be nice to be able to somehow send multiple folders to the "find in" list of the panel opened in another layout as well.

The more I've though about it though... I wonder if the easiest change GPsoft might possibly be able to make that might make the largest number of users who miss the old Find Tool the happiest might be if there ware an advanced option to simply open an Opus provided 'Find Layout' for all find operations. Meaning... for all uses of the "Find" RAW command... just send all of that into the find panel of a dedicated Find layout instead of the find panel in the current lister. Then users can tweak the actual layout however which way they want (size, orientation, etc). I would have to imagine that might be easier to code than trying to shoe-horn methods into place in order to "send" some uses of calling the find command into another lister that just happens to have the find panel open.

It won't make everybody happy... some people will want a "Find Layout" not to show any file list... which is where my crackpot idea of a lister not showing any file display came from. Ok, maybe that's silly and not something anyone would use for any other reason than this find stuff... but there have been other talks and good reason to save toolbar states in layouts, and from there, ppl could resize the file display so that it's virtually not there, whack any extraneous toolbars, and have a pretty low-profile find panel lister to use.

Wow... really long ramble...

So, it seems to me from reading that, apart from one or two things that could be tweaked (feel free to suggest 'em via the BR tool), and people having to get used to a slightly different UI, the newer way is better?

Not sure it's worth the complication (extra option, special hidden layout, etc.) when you can already create your own layout and edit the Tools -> Find menu item to use it.

The problem is people don't realise they can do that until they ask here, but they probably wouldn't know what "make_find_use_secret_layout" did, either. :slight_smile: And I'm not sure how that secret layout would get updated.

I'm with steje on this.

I do not like the way the Find panel swallows almost half of my default general-purpose dual horizontal layout. It makes use of the results quite inconvenient.

My solution has been quite straightforward. I created a new layout called Find (imaginitive, that :stuck_out_tongue: ), located on a different monitor from the one where I keep my default layout, complete with its own copy of the Find panel. I then set up a button with the command:

Prefs LAYOUT="Find"

I can now work with my find results and my default layout at the same time. It works well, and I wonder why I never thought of doing it years ago.

So, as I said in reply to Steje, you seem to also be saying that the newer way is better than the older way now that you're used to it and have found a way to use it that fits with your workflow.

So everyone should be happy, but it seems like there's still some kind of complaint, although I'm not sure what the complaint really is as you're both saying the newer way is better. :slight_smile:

My complaint was never with the panel itself, Leo...

On the advice that it was deprecated, I stopped using the old tool long ago. I'm just kicking myself that I persisted with using the panel in its default format for so long, grumbling each time I did so.

Now that I have my new setup, I wonder why such a solution is not at least a built-in option for the setup of the panel. I think this is what steje was suggesting. I suspect if it were, the dissenting voices would be silenced. Really, the only thing the old tool had going for it was that its results could be floated to a convenient location.

By the way - about new utility panel. In Opus 9 it was quick to switch to separate FTP log window. Now it's much longer. First - I must have open ANY lister if I want to use Output Window from tray icon (otherwise "Output Window" tray function do nothing). Second - i must use drop-down menu to select FTP logs (instead of tabs). Then I can choose separate window button. Maybe is any faster way but I don't figure out how.

Briefly... @teefan: in much the same way we're all talking here about using a saved lister "Layout" to replace the old stand alone Find Tool - you'll probably be best served by opening a lister, sizing it however you like, opening the utility panel to the FTPLog, and then saving that lister as a layout called FTPLog. Then you can create a button or hotkey or tray menu item to run the command prefs layout=ftplog... done.


Well... you can read it that way to make it sound better :slight_smile:... sure. I think it "can" be better, but currently is "not". It's the "apart from one or two things" part that makes it a "fail" for me right now though. You can't say that there are a few things (which I've acknowledged above) which are in fact better that make everything just fine on the whole...

Well, again - that's just an example of something I thought would be easier than having some other kludgey modification that would allow us to "send find command optional stuff to a different lister with the find panel open". We can't do that right now with just creating our own layout... maybe just a modification to the find command itself then could do what I'm saying is currently lacking... something like Find USELAYOUT/S or something that would cause all find command values to be sent to the new lister with the find panel open - which all users could set to their wishes... I never suggested some "secret layout"... just to provide some way for all existing Opus find command options and arguments to be sent to the find panel - but opened in a separate lister Layout with a hard-coded name of Find. Of course I did say that Opus should then include a default "Find Layout"... but not some strange hidden thing... just a layout of some kind that would serve to allow the command/option/whatever to work out-of-box without a user having to create it from scratch - and which we can alter to our satisfaction. Just a detail...

Otherwise, the "new way" for me is still a "fail" without the following things being made possible/enhanced:

1.) opening a "Find layout" doesn't put focus in the "Name matching" field to allow someone to hit their hotkey or button and immediately start typing to execute a find.
2.) similarly, we can't make use of the RAW Find command - without first opening our own "Layout" and then running whatever type of search button/commands/whatever... since all of that would only work within the currently active lister with the find panel. So if an advanced option to always open a not-hidden layout isn't sensible, maybe a Find USELAYOUT/S option would make more sense. Though I suspect the sensibleness or lack of it would really boil down to how inclined GPSoft would or wouldn't be to invest any effort at all in this general area. Some code had to have changed to redirect all the v9 Find command stuff to the panel - instead of the find tool... so hopefully it would be that difficult to the opening of a hard-coded-named layout to send all the stuff to...
3.) this still won't make SOME ppl happy... for some, I'm sure they'll want a still-slimmer smaller window than we can create now ith a lister window - like the old find tool called up it's pretty small dialog. Personally, I don't care so much... though again, with potential future changes to save toolbar and other file display state info in layouts - that could get better/easier at some point.

Again - I want to keep this all in perspective... I love v10. It's a step up from v9 in just about every way. This (for me) just isn't one of those ways. New find capabilities are great - the panel has more functionality than the tool... but it's more cumbersome for "me" to make use of. If I feel as though I'm having an issue using it... then I am, and that's just that. It's the same with the new navlock behavior... I'll either lobby successfully for some changes that make me even happier than I was with v9 - or just deal with the drawbacks that I feel are there.

A big +1 on bringing the old FIND panel back. I am a graphic artist and Web developer and I have been using dual monitors for about 6 years. This morning I spent literally an hour trying to 'pull' the "Utility Panel" away from the bottom, and then trying to pull the Find Results from the right side (because I knew it could) and searching through the Preferences knowing I was going to find some setting to get the Find panel to the other monitor. And then I find this thread. CRAP!

Please, please bring back the old find panel or at least make it an option. After all the debate here I still see no justifiable reason the old panel was so out dated or inefficient it needed replacing. As a matter of fact I'll give you a good example of why the undockable/separate panel was far better; about two hours ago I did a search for a CSS element in a Web site directory - 22 files came up matching that string and on a 22 inch monitor @ 1680 X 1050 resolution I have to scroll down to see the rest of the results and then scroll right to see the file location. AND THEN the file location is truncated like this:

\root\ocp\includes\js\tinymce\plugins...\classes ---> GOES OFFSCREEN SO I NEED TO SCROLL RIGHT

And what is ...\ supposed to tell me? So I figured out I need to scroll back left and then right-click on the file name and choose "Open Containing Folder." WOW because I have to do this with every file just to see the entire directory path?

Make it better not harder!

@darkhelmet: I seriously doubt the old Find Tool will ever come back... and I really don't think it should. For myself (and I suspect others) I just want to be able to make use of the newer Find Panel in much the same aesthetic way as we were always able to use the old tools dialog... primarily, with it being detached from the current lister.

For what you're describing - I'd say you'd be interested in creating a "Find Layout" with the folder tree turned off, and the Find Panel trimmed down as far as it can be vertically. If you save it as a layout called "Find"... you can then edit the current <Ctrl+F> hotkey binding to run the command Go CURRENT LAYOUT=Find - I also thought I had it opening on the "other" monitor from where I had the lister (not on dual-monitors all the time). But in any event, depending on how you have your Collection format setup, you should be able to set the column widths to show as much as you ever saw of the "Location" path for the found files as you ever saw with the old tools dialog... And as Leo has pointed out - you can also toggle off the Find Panel so that you can most likely end up being able to see even MORE of the file list 'vertically' than you used to be able to see in the old tools dialog/results window.

Side Note: For anyone interested... the change GPsoft made to wildcard path formats in the release has now made it so that you can define a specific folder format for the path coll://Find*. Along with the additional change made so that concurrent Find operations create an incrementally named "Find Results #" collection to send their output to - this means you can define your folder format for your find results to be shown with very easily without affecting ALL file collections - pretty cool!

Having the added ability to control things in a dedicated "Find Layout" since it's just another Lister - as opposed to a specific dialog for the old find tool - is one of the reasons this "new way" can ultimately end up being better for us. If we successfully lobby GPSoft to iron out a few enhancements - I'm confident I'll never look back. For instance, having the "Automatically shrink panel" as an option for the regular Find Panel like exists for the Sync Tool would make it so that you don't even have to toggle off the panel as you execute your search, you will instantly see a full height file list, with the panel shrunk down out of site. And then - I've referred several times in this thread to the possibility of layouts (such as one you might presumably create as a dedicated "Find layout") storing toolbar and other file display state info... It's just an idea that has merits beyond the "Find Tool" debate, and doesn't exist. But if it ever got done though - you'd end up with a separate lister with your find results that would show you MORE than the old find dialog results window ever did... and I think that'd be a most welcome outcome to this whole discussion.

Thanks for the imformative last two rambles.
You've given me reason to look into this more .
I've been thinking database when perhaps I should be looking at the find panel more.

So create a layout with the FTP log on and open that instead. How often do you want to look at the FTP log when you don't have any windows open and thus aren't actually using FTP, anyway??

If you look in the default toolbar's FTP menu, there is an item there which directly opens the FTP log. The command it runs is Set UTILITY=FTPLog,Toggle (requires a lister to be open, so if you want something that opens it from the tray icon when a lister might not be open you should use a layout instead, as per above).

[quote="darkhelmet"]22 files came up matching that string and on a 22 inch monitor @ 1680 X 1050 resolution I have to scroll down to see the rest of the results and then scroll right to see the file location. AND THEN the file location is truncated like this:

\root\ocp\includes\js\tinymce\plugins...\classes ---> GOES OFFSCREEN SO I NEED TO SCROLL RIGHT

And what is ...\ supposed to tell me? So I figured out I need to scroll back left and then right-click on the file name and choose "Open Containing Folder." WOW because I have to do this with every file just to see the entire directory path?[/quote]

Sorry but what does the Find Panel vs Find Window debate have to do with how wide the list of find results are and whether or not the Location column is wide enough to display without truncation?

The Find Panel only takes up vertical space so it has no effect on the width of anything.

In both cases the results are/were displayed in a similar way using the same fonts & columns.

If the shown columns or widths are not what you want you can change them.

So file feature requests for those 2/3 things and let's all get on with our lives. :slight_smile: