I did find that the "Include columns from other matching formats" was checked, so I'm going through those now. Thanks for that heads up!
Well, that's a bit screwy. The Favorite Formats don't have the Content Threshold settings. That seems like a bit of an oversight...
Favorite Format Options:
Same options anywhere else:
Going to give this a try. Thanks again.
Ok, that was it.
I was editing the Favorite Formats entry, which doesn't have those magic options. I even copied them to the Content Type Formats entry and still had no luck (because those had the options turned on).
I just applied them to the main folder and all subfolders now have the same format.
Is there any reason the Favorite Formats don't have those options?
What about the Default Format?
What would they do?
Favorite Formats only get applied when you explicitly select them from a menu after changing folders. If you're editing those to alter what happens when you change folders, you're editing the wrong things.
The same thing as anywhere else. I might want two different Music formats, say, one for MP3 and one for WAV since WAV doesn't typically have ID tags. So I would have Music MP3 and Music Wav set up as favorites. That is the point of having Favorites, right?
It's kinda inconvenient to have to reapply the same favorite every time I open a folder. And opening the Folder Options to apply it to the folder so it will stick should use that favorite. Otherwise, it's not much of a favorite and just a temporary format.
Where does the Content Threshold come into this though? That only applies to Content Type formats when changing folders. It has no effect on any other format type, which is why it isn't shown for the others.
I guess the column inheritance checkbox could be useful in Favorite formats purely so you can define what the checkbox is you copy and paste a Favorite over another format in the Preferences list. But there's no other time, at least that I know of, when that checkbox would do anything for a Favorite format; it would never be used directly, because selecting a Favorite format when looking at a folder will load that format as-is without ever inheriting columns from other formats.
From the look of your tooltip screenshots above, neither the Favorite formats nor the Content Type formats were in play, so they shouldn't have been where the Attributes column was coming from. (That must be coming from Default Format > User Default at the bottom of the list, unless something strange is happening.)
It's also sometimes less confusing to test formats by closing the window (or at least the tab) and opening a new one, to ensure nothing done to the previous window is still having any effect. (Mentioned near the bottom of Folder Formats: Quick Guide just before the video.)
I was grouping that whole bottom section under that heading since that's the first of three options that don't show up in Favorites. It was a lot shorter than typing "Include columns from other matching formats" and "Use as the default format for all sub-folders" over & over.
Right now, there is no evident functional difference between the Content Type Format and the Favorites. They both do the same thing. If you pick one from a menu to apply it, it's temporary; changing folders will lose it. When you follow it with the Folder Options to lock it in, then it stays...
But in the case of the Favorites, you don't get those last three options. Those are turned on internally, whether you want them or not, so I don't see the point of the Favorites. They're the same as the Media types, but with three settings locked.
So, picking a Favorite or a Media type from the menu does the exact same thing. It's a temporary format change. You just don't get to specify whether to "Include columns from other matching formats" and "Use as the default format for all sub-folders" if you go the Favorite route, which seems like an oddly random restriction.
Content Type formats are only used when you read a new folder. The threshold value is meaningless after that point.
Ignore the threshold value. I already said that's not the issue. I'm talking about "Include columns from other matching formats" and "Use as the default format for all sub-folders", which it appears I'll have to copy and paste frequently.
Here's the issue:
I select a format for a folder that has subfolders I want to inherit that same format.
If I pick a format from the Content Type list (Music in this case) that format gets applied. But that's not applied to any subfolders or any other windows. Switching folders will also lose the format.
If I want to keep it permanently, I have to save the format through the Save Format options in Folder Options, and use "Replace this folder's format in any layouts and saved folder tabs" and "Save for all sub-folders" to get it to stick and affect the sub-folders.
Compare that with this:
If I pick a format from the Favorites list (Music in this case, which is a copy of the Media Types Music) that format gets applied. But that's not applied to any subfolders or any other windows. Switching folders will also lose the format.
If I want to keep it permanently, I have to save the format through the Save Format options in Folder Options, and use "Replace this folder's format in any layouts and saved folder tabs" and "Save for all sub-folders" to get it to stick and affect the sub-folders.
These are both exactly the same steps and results, except for the second case, where extra columns are added immediately because "Include columns from other matching formats" is turned on internally, even if the favorite is a copy of a Media type that has this off.
So two Media Types and Favorites are two identical features, with just a couple hidden settings that are ways turned on internally for the Favorite. So why have Favorites at all if I can just turn those settings on and off in the Media Type as I wish? The Music Favorite is exactly the same as the Music Media Type with those options turned on. Am I missing something here?
I'm finding it hard to follow your questions because you seem to keep changing what it is you're asking about. Hopefully I'm answering the right thing.
Favorite formats are self-contained formats that can be applied to the current file display at any time. They don't use other formats, refer to other formats, or affect other formats. It's a one-time operation - "apply the settings from this favorite to this file display". That's all they do.
Like all format changes in a file display, they aren't saved automatically. If you save the format of a folder after applying a favorite, the folder doesn't remain linked to the favorite - it has its own set of options, which just happen to have been set by applying a favorite.
Favorites don't have the "including columns from other matching formats" argument because no format matching is going on at the time they're applied.
So is applying a Media Type. Without locking it in with Folder Options, they are essentially the same thing.
And yet, that is exactly what is being turned on by Favorites that was causing my problem. "Include columns from other matching formats" and "Use as the default format for all sub-folders" are both turned on automatically when a Favorite is applied and locked in.
I have two formats that are identical. One is a Media Type and the other is a Favorite that was copied from it. The Media Type has "Include columns from other matching formats" turned on. I can apply either by selecting its menu item and they both work identically. No new columns are added, and they do not affect subfolders. When I lock them in with Folder Options, they both add the new columns and apply to the subfolders. There is no difference between them.
Now, if I turn off "Include columns from other matching formats" and "Use as the default format for all sub-folders" in the Media Type, there's still no difference between them, until I lock them in with Folder Options. Then the Media Type has those options turned off and no new columns appear, but the Favorite always turns that on and the new columns will appear.
Now I think I found a bug.
I would copy the settings to my Favorite. Then when I went back to the Media Tye and turned off "Include columns from other matching formats" and "Use as the default format for all sub-folders", and then picked "Set from Favorites" and picked the Music format, those two options would turn on. Every time.
But, if I select the Music Media Type (with those options off), and select Set as Favorite with a new name and then copy that back with Set from Favorite, those options remain off. It seem that those are locked in the Favorite based on what they were set to when the favorite was originally created. Those are stored, but not editable after.
The new favorite behaves correctly, just like the Media Type with "Include columns from other matching formats" and "Use as the default format for all sub-folders" turned off. So now I have one Favorite with those turned on and one with those turned off. So Favorites do support these options, but they can only be set by the user when the Favorite is created (this includes the Threshold setting). Now that I know about this, I know how to fix the problem at the root.
Maybe the easiest thing would be to send us your config with a description of what to do to see the problem. We can probably work out what's wrong from there.
To make a config backup, use Settings > Backup & Restore.
That will make a .ocb file but it's really a zip archive, if you rename the extension. You can look inside it and delete things like the FTP folder that might contain passwords, since we don't need any of those details.
If you want to do that, please send the config file via private message or to crashdumps@gpsoft.com.au (although the mail system has been holding up attachments that contain scripts lately, as it thinks they are potentially dangerous, so private message is most reliable).
I took a look in the Formats folder in that file, and I can post the relevant bits here.
First, the Music format that was causing me issues.
And the entry:
<path name="Music">
<format back_color="#fff0ff" compatfiles="default" contentsubfolderthreshold="yes" getsizes="on" inherit_hidefilter="yes" inherit_labels="yes" inherit_showfilter="yes" inheritcolumns="yes" numericname="yes" override_image="yes" sort="dirsfirst" tab_color="#ff8aff" threshhold="25" v="2" view_mode="details" wordsort="yes">
<image flags="0" id="0" type="-2" />
<field id="name" size="350" size_dpi="100" sort="1" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="sizeauto" size="64" size_dpi="100" />
<field id="filecount" size="50" size_dpi="100" />
<field fill_max="yes" id="type" size="90" size_dpi="100" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="modified" size="125" size_dpi="100" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="rating" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="mp3artists" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="mp3album" />
<field collapse="yes" id="mp3track" />
<field collapse="yes" id="mp3title" />
<field collapse="yes" id="duration" />
<field collapse="yes" id="mp3year" />
<ignore_prefix>the |an \a</ignore_prefix>
</format>
</path>
This is a Favorite, created by selecting the Music COntent Type and selecting Ad to Favorites.
Then I changed the last settings in that Content Type:
I Added a new Favorite from that, called Music (Works). Here's a screen grab of that:
Looks just like the first one, but here's the entry in the .off file:
<path name="Music (Works)">
<format back_color="#fff0ff" compatfiles="default" getsizes="on" inherit_hidefilter="yes" inherit_labels="yes" inherit_showfilter="yes" numericname="yes" override_image="yes" sort="dirsfirst" tab_color="#ff8aff" threshhold="50" v="2" view_mode="details" wordsort="yes">
<image flags="0" id="0" type="-2" />
<field id="name" size="350" size_dpi="100" sort="1" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="sizeauto" size="64" size_dpi="100" />
<field id="filecount" size="50" size_dpi="100" />
<field fill_max="yes" id="type" size="90" size_dpi="100" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="modified" size="125" size_dpi="100" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="rating" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="mp3artists" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="mp3album" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="mp3track" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="mp3title" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="duration" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="mp3year" />
<field auto_size="yes" collapse="yes" id="mp3mode" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="mp3bitrate" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="mp3samplerate" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="picdepth" />
<field auto_size="yes" id="mp3genre" />
<ignore_prefix>the |an \a</ignore_prefix>
</format>
</path>
Note the changed Threshold value, among other differences.
Other Favorites I created this way are named "M3" and "Music - Works", each has different settings stored when they were created, but can't be modified.
Opus Test.zip (133.3 KB)
A quick way to see the difference is to open the Manage Folder Options and then open the Content Type for Music. Go to the Options tab on that and then click on the REset Page button in the lower right and select Set from Favorites. Pick "Music", "Music (Works)", "M3", and "Music - Works" and notice that the bottom three options ("Content Threshold", "Consider Subfolders ...", and "Include Columns...") all change, indicating that all three are stored in the Favorites, and they get applied.
Already covered that.
What's your actual question?
Did you read the big post I wrote a few days ago that had my configs attached?
We're at the part where you can't edit the last three options in this panel in a Favorite, which is what was causing the problem:
But you can set that ahead of time when you create the Favorite. But once it's set, you can't edit it because those controls are not available in a Favorite, even though they actually work. Which you can also see in the config.
I've been told now several times that those options don't work, but they clearly do. I've given step by step procedures to see this in action, which I'll repeat here again, in Procedure 1:
-
Open the Manage Folders panel.
-
Open the Music Content Type panel.
-
Switch to the Options tab.
-
Note the status of the "Content Threshold", "Consider subfolders...", and "Include columns..." settings.
-
Now, click the Reset Page button in the lower right and select Set from Favorites. Select Music (Works).
-
Note those settings again.
-
Click the Reset Page button again and this time select M3. Note the settings again.
-
Do the same with Music, and Music - Works.
Selecting Music (Works) will set the Content Threshold to 50% and turn off the two checkboxes below it.
Selecting M3 will set the Content Threshold to 99% and turn off the two checkboxes.
Selecting Music - Works will set the Content Threshold to 25% and turn off the two checkboxes.
Selecting Music will set the Content Threshold to 25% and TURN ON the two checkboxes.
Also, as expected, applying any of these Favorites by going into Folder Options and clicking the Save button and selecting "Save Format for a Folder", will apply those settings to the folder.
To duplicate these results here's Procedure 2:
-
Select the Music Favorite and apply it to a folder (preferably one with audio files).
-
Note the columns that are displayed..
-
Open Folder Options and click the Save button select "Save format for a folder". Also check "Replace this folder's format..." and "Save for all sub-folders."
-
Click OK and note the columns that are displayed. There should be two additional ones.
-
Now apply the Music (Works) Favorite. The two new columns should disappear.
-
Open Folder Options and click the Save button select "Save format for a folder". Also check "Replace this folder's format..." and "Save for all sub-folders." again.
-
Note the columns. No additional columns were added.
This is why I was getting the added columns in the first place - they were applied to the Music Content Type at the time I created my original Music Favorite. I turned those OFF and then created the Music - Works Favorite. To double and triple check, I increased the Threshold (which I have been told a few times now will have no effect) to 50% and created the Music (Works) Favorite. And once again, I raised it, to 99% and created the M3 Favorite.
When I saved my original Music Favorite to a folder, it was adding the additional columns because the options to do that were active when I created it. When I saved the newer Music - Works favorite the exact same way, it didn't add any new columns because I turned those options off when I created that Favorite.
Once a Favorite is created, there is no way to edit those last three options - "Content Threshold", "Consider subfolders...", and "Include columns...". This is the problem. These should be editable. They can be set at the creation of the Favorite, so they should be editable, because they actually do work, as I've detailed in Procedure 2. As it is currently, to change those three behaviors, the user has to set this up in the Content Type Format and then create a new Favorite using the "Add to Favorites" command. Having the commands removed from the Favorites panel also makes it difficult and annoying to try to figure out how the Favorite is going to behave because there's no easy way to check those settings later, without using the "Set from Favorites" method outlined in Procedure 1.
In fact, another option, "Use as the default format for all sub-folders" should also be present on all panels, for Favorites, Path Formats, Content Type Formats, etc., so regardless of format type, you would have:
"Content Threshold"
"Consider subfolders when calculating content threshold.",
"Include columns from matching formats.",
AND
"Use as the default format for all sub-folders"
There is no good reason not to include these on all format panels. After all, Folder Type Formats have "Use as the default format for all sub-folders" listed. Even though it's ghosted out, I can at least SEE how it's set. I shouldn't have to set these on a folder by folder basis in the Path Formats, when setting these in the Favorite and then applying it would do that same thing much quicker and in just a few short clicks.
The original problem has been figured out - why I was getting new columns when I applied a Favorite. Then the problem was how do I fix it so I don't get those new columns.
To which I was informed several times, that those options "don't work in Favorites", which I have tested and discovered that they in fact, do, and I've listed the steps to show this in action, as well as my configs.
It comes down to bad interface design, where the relevant options are not available in the Favorite, but must be set in a Content Type before the Favorite is created from it, and once created, those options cannot be changed. To change them, a whole new favorite has to be made, by setting the options in the Content Type and then creating the new Favorite.
There is no simple way to check those options after the Favorite is created, because they simply do not appear in the Favorite. The easiest method is unintuitive at best; open the Content Type, and then use the Reset Page option to access the "Set From Favorites" command,and then check the following options to see what they were when the Favorite was created:
"Content Threshold"
"Consider subfolders when calculating content threshold.",
"Include columns from matching formats."
So, when I was getting new columns, there was nothing in the Favorite to indicate why, and no way to change that. And when I pointed that out, the response was "Favorite Formats only get applied when you explicitly select them from a menu after changing folders. If you're editing those to alter what happens when you change folders, you're editing the wrong things.", which is clearly wrong as I demonstrated step by step in my last post.
If you looked where we told you, you would have found the real source of the unwanted columns, which are still there in your config, right where we said they would be.
We've also tried to explain how those other settings aren't relevant to favourites (I suspect there's some confusion about terminology here, but I'm not sure).
To solve your issue with the unwanted columns, remove them from your default format.
1 Like
[quote="Leo, post:24, topic:37814, full:true"]
If you looked where we told you, you would have found the real source of the unwanted columns, which are still there in your config, right where we said they would be.[/quote]
Are you reading ANYTHING I'm telling you?
I got the original problem fixed. The problem that led to it is the missing commands from the Favorite Formats".
To wit:
"Content Threshold"
"Consider subfolders when calculating content threshold.",
"Include columns from matching formats.",
AND
"Use as the default format for all sub-folders"
THAT is the real source of the problem. These should be present in the Favorites because they WORK in the Favorites. The reason I was having problems is because they ARE NOT PRESENT in the Favorite Format, so I couldn't turn "Include columns from matching formats."off.
The problem is that the original Favorite I created had "Include columns from matching formats." turned on (which is the factory default, by the way) when it was created, and there was absolutely no way to turn it off in the Edit Format panel for it. Go ahead. Try it. You have my configs. Turn that off in my Music Favorite. I've been looking all over and I can't find that control anywhere in that panel:
But I can sure as hell set it to whatever I want when I create a Favorite, which only took me several days to stumble on that secret, and that will work.
You obviously haven't bothered going through the steps I've painstakingly outlined for you multiple times now, have you? The steps that CLEARLY SHOW THAT THE MISSING OPTIONS DO APPLY. If there's confusion, then maybe it's your labeling in the software, because that's what I'm using. They're all there in this image:
I've mentioned Favorite Format, or Favorites for short, right there at the top. Content Type Formats, right in the middle. Folder Types, below that. My current Favorites, including Music, Music - Works, Music (Works), and M3, are listed under Favorite Formats, right there at the top.
And if I want those to appear in another Favorite?
And don't tell me it's one or the other since you can see in the configs I posted that I have both working. Music has them ON, Music - Works, Music (Works), and M3 have them OFF.
As I said, I can set those the way I want when I create the Favorite, and again, I have provided detailed steps that show how to do this, as well as configs that have these options set differently, including one Favorite that adds the columns and three others that don't. The problem is I cannot edit those after creating the Favorite Format. Go ahead, try it. If you have a simpler method than editing the original Content Type Format and setting "Include columns from matching formats.", or any of the other options I listed above, and then selecting "Add To Favorites", I'd love to see it. But right now, this is the simplest and most versatile way to do it.
(
Simply put, EVERY format type listed here:
should have the following options in the Options Tab:
"Content Threshold"
"Consider subfolders when calculating content threshold.",
"Include columns from matching formats.",
"Use as the default format for all sub-folders"
Because currently, they can all be set before selecting "Add To Favorites", but cannot be changed afterward without having to create a whole new Favorite, or even viewed without selecting the matching Content Type Format and selecting "Set From Favorites".