Tagging Improvements

[ASUNDER]

I ran a duplicate finder tool and ended up losing most of my backups, and about two days of work. Not realizing that a backup is a duplicate of its source. Forgot that I haven't protected my backups by marking them as such. So I'm back to having a want in my tagging abilities.

Whenever I use a search or tool I would want to directly exclude backup folders and files from being grouped in with everything else. I can already exclude my backup folder from the 'Everything' index, but that's not good enough.

I need to be able to mark backups somehow. Not a sidecar tag, a writing of something to the file itself. That's also searchable with all standard search tools, and can be filtered in order by these marks. So I'm looking at Dopus to do this. It would be really nice to have some tagging improvements.

• Auto tagging. Any time a file gets put into a folder it gets tagged, using a custom config.
• Custom default tag order. 'Always alphabetical' order, or a custom order.
• Tag colours and tag groups.
• Tag column could have a drop down menu to choose the tags to filter by. Column is populated by chronological order of clicking on these tags.
• Custom filter assignments. "If a file is an .exe it will have the APP tag. If the filetype is associated with an art program, it will have the ART tag. If it has the BACK tag (backup) then it can't be deleted without confirmation. etc. A tag manager where you set this all up.
• Tag filter in with the filter bar and the advanced search box.

If there is some other way of auto-writing metadata that does the same things as tags, that would be fine too. But I think tags exist specifically for organizing similar objects like this.

I know I've already talked about tags, but since I'm now suffering consequences that could have been avoided with tags, I'm here asking again.

[Leo]

Why not just exclude the backup folders when doing the searches? A lot more straightforward.

[ASUNDER]

Because I would have to remember to do so.

Automatic organization does the remembering for me. The fact that backups are duplicates of their originals is pretty obvious. The reason I slash and burned a bunch of stuff by accident is because I didn't think of these things at the time. I was solving a different problem of having memory space issues, so my mind was occupied by that at the time. The human mind can be inconsistent and fail at times; the computer can't. But the human mind can instruct the computer to be a safety net for the future times the human mind can't be trusted to be perfect.

I didn't remember to back up my "two days of work" either, before the duplicates purge. I'm now using backup software that automatically overwrites the destination (backups) on a schedule (the differences between source as destination = "mirror"). Now I don't have to remember to backup and also this process is less work. To the point where it's no work. Auto tagging etc. is a similar strategy of getting the computer to do the work for us. Automating things that the human could do manually, but why would we? When we could once manually tell the computer to do it for us always.

In Eagle the folders can have "set auto tag". When I save something to that folder it gets that tag. And then its subfolders have their own auto tag. So if I saved an art business video and put that in that folder, it automatically has the tags: ART; BUS; VID.

Here's an example:

That folder are subscriptions on YouTube. That pic is the main folder. Subfolders have more tags auto-added to the end of that group of tags. Anytime I want to find videos in my entire library I can search for the tag VID. Tag searches can be a mixture of tags by clicking on them in the search field (not by having to type them out manually. Typing out tags manually is a stupid waste of time). Anything that is a video format is colored red. This tag system is superior to the Dopus tag system.

I was trying to set up 'File Collection' searches, where all the parameters were already typed out for me. I just have to go to that custom search, refresh the lister and it would run the search. I have this folder right on my file tree for always quick access.

I tested different kinds of searches, but only ended up with stored searches for the dates, because I found out the hard way that adding tags to each file and folder manually, one by one, is a huge waste of time.

So almost any search that I would do, I would add -BACK, to exclude anything anywhere that is a backup. Or I could only have backups in my search *BACK. Actually ARCH would be a better tag (archive), to include compressed archives in this special group.

I could exclude backup folders from the index, but how do I search for only backups then? In the backup folders I can't disallow the system to have read/write permission because then my software can't update the current backup.

As you already know, this split tunneling searching is good for anything; not just backups. With tags files and folders can be customized to be in an exclusive group with any other of that particular thing on the computer, not being at the mercy of already existing parameters, like rating or date modified etc. Tags get rid of those limitations. It can be entirely personal; whatever I decide to type as a tag is that global group. The items don't have to be in the same directory or be the same type. They only need to share the same tag. Then they can be collected together in seconds with a simple search. Especially if I create a bunch of pre-made file collection searches that are ready to go at any time.

[ASUNDER]

I thought that Dopus writes tags to file metadata. Guess not.

So I discovered that a jpeg file has a tag field but a png doesn't. ... what?

Why is the NTFS system not handling this? Why are files expected to self govern themselves; what they can or cannot support? I heard it's something to do with a header not being able to fit in the block. ? Dunno but it's stupid. The NTFS system can compress files without a file compression program, but can't dictate metadata?

...

I know you guys don't need a computer science lecture. You know what you're doing. But your tagging system doesn't reflect that you know what you're doing.

In Eagle when I go to make a new tag:

Have a look at the box that pops up:

Tag groups, suggested, recent, type to search. One click to add/remove, instead of typing out tags manually. Even having to type the first letter then click on that pop up is two actions, instead of one click being one action.

Have a look at some other of your competitors:

Tagging For Windows:

(But Tagging For Windows actually thinks people would spend $7 a month subscription to have a tagging system.)

The American people, who just uprooted their government over economic issues, on average spends $300 per month on subscription fees. A bunch of geniuses over there.

...

Raindrop: (similar to Dopus but at least there is a drop down menu and a one-click filter by tags section)

Stagsi:

Tag Spaces Pro:

Tag Studio:

An Asset Manager (Lists Tag?) Those tags can update themselves based on customized metrics. As in, you don't have to manually delete the old and add the new. It will convert itself based on user settings. Example: From 'In Progress' to 'Finished' etc. This is one of my requests.

Microsoft:
365:

OneNote:

Outlook: (Yes even an email client has custom colours and groups for tags)

XNViewMP: (pretty basic but at least it has one-click buttons and lists all available tags)

Directory Opus:

I'm sure these examples are just scratching the surface of how far behind the market you are in this area of tagging. It's stuck in windows 98.

[Jon]

What are all those programs like at file management?

[Leo]

@ASUNDER

Because I would have to remember to do so.

You can add it to the panel’s defaults so the backup folders are excluded by default.

[MegMac]

PNG files don't support Tags, which are IPTC Keywords. Don't blame Dopus.
IPTC tags are readable regardless of whether your drive format is NTFS or a Mac format.

[MichaelScott]

Labels have a lot of this visual functionality you are looking for and I am trying to make a script that will take a label applied to a file and automatically create a tag on the file with the same name as the label. That way labels and tags are sort of synced so if you need tag in the metadata maybe that can work. Although I would need help from Leo, lxp, or someone much more skilled than me to pull it off since a simple button like this works

Properties SETLABEL="Exports"
SetAttr META "tags:Exports"

But that only handles one label at a time per button. Currently I am trying to get it to happen with the actual label menu with this code

Properties SETLABEL !menu LABELCATEGORY raw:~(Status)

Since that code shows all labels in a dynamic menu that shows all labels available. If it is possible to grab whichever label is in there and automatically make a tag along with it that might be useful!

[xavierarmand]

I'm big on tagging but as @MegMac & @Jon have, in a round about way, said... Windows ability to handle # tags is is pitifully lame AF.
Which why a dozen different taddong tolls have their own ways of dressing up tags that windows won't read.

Its a headache at best.

I made a hotkeyed button from this post...

Add new tag to existing tags

SetAttr META "tags:+{dlgstring|Enter tags to add, separated by ';' character:}" When using this, avoid starting any tag names with - (minus), or using tag names that contain ".

... To at least quickly add tags to selected files. I use Ctrl + k, which is adobes key to add tags. I dressed my button up a bit more but alas I'm away from my main rig for bit so I cant post my full button at the moment.

So at least there there tags there in some compasity. Adobe sees them... They show up in dopus tag column. But other software and fancy taggers might not.

At this point in the game I doubt windows will ever see a universal tagging feature. They've shifted their focus universal spyware rather than computing functionality. ....... Linux can handle tagging but not dopus or everything sooo... Ugh

[ASUNDER]

@Jon

What are all those programs like at file management?

Horrible. Dopus is better in every way except tagging. On my journey to find the best way of organizing things I discovered that basically every inferior software handles tags better than Dopus does. I think the Eagle system is the best tagging system I found so far.

I called them "competitors" because the pics I snipped are from review videos, "Top ten file tagging" etc. So if someone is specifically looking for that then they prioritize tagging to solve their organizational problem, so they will never find Dopus. So those companies are taking your market share, making them competitors.

I submit that an improved tagging system would be added to the already existing Dopus feature set. So people who want the best tagging will get that *and the Dopus file management. Why then would someone choose those other programs? If they offered a similar tagging system and an inferior everything else. I'm lecturing again, sorry. But just explaining myself of why I think better tagging is good for everyone.

@Leo

You can add it to the panel’s defaults so the backup folders are excluded by default.

Ok that's good, thank you.

@MegMac

PNG files don't support Tags, which are IPTC Keywords. Don't blame Dopus.

I'm blaming Microsoft for that. I didn't type that part out properly. I meant that the operating system should be dictating metadata support. Anything that exists on the NTFS system should have full support for metadata. We see the consequences of that not being a reality, when there are a bunch of proprietary systems all existing together. When you need one thing to modify one file type and another thing to modify another file type. It's a mess, and should have been fixed long ago.

All file types should be governed by Microsoft, having an industry standard metadata format. With an API that any developer can integrate with. Someone could use a MS or third party tool to batch modify their metadata with any file in any place on their computer. Having to use Mp3 Tag for audio and Exif Tool for other types is a garbage system.

[ASUNDER]

@MichaelScott

I am trying to make a script that will take a label applied to a file and automatically create a tag on the file with the same name as the label.

Ya, I'm thinking SetAttr META "tags: ..." can be useful. We can create multiple operations and have custom triggers for that. But the problem remains that not all file types support tags in their metadata. If they did then this would be a lot easier.

[MichaelScott]

Ah that's a bummer. Well at least for files that you can tag I found a handy way to use labels to auto label based on the folder it is put in and then quickly populate the tags off that with a toolbar button.

[David]

@ASUNDER

The American people, who just uprooted their government over economic issues, on average spends $300 per month on subscription fees. A bunch of geniuses over there.

Well, I agree with the last sentence.
Why would that happen if they can afford $300 per month extra cash for subscription fees ?

Sorry, I haven't really followed this thread at all.
I'm busy working on a Physics problem of a sliding minor mass along a circular curve of a sliding major mass using La Grange energy equations. In short, a pendulum curve along a sliding mass over time.

[MegMac]

I did not try to follow all of ASUNDER's points, but I do agree that DOpus Tagging/Keywording is a weakness in DOpus.
Keyword management is one of the few things I do not use Opus for because I cannot
see a list of Keywords or export a list of Keywords.

[ASUNDER]

@MichaelScott

Ah that's a bummer. Well at least for files that you can tag I found a handy way to use labels to auto label based on the folder it is put in and then quickly populate the tags off that with a toolbar button.

That tag button looks sweet. I'm gonna try to make my own. Maybe I can make a removal of tags button too. And even a removal then an add, which is effectively a replacement. That's getting closer to my desired auto tagging.

You have two instances of Dopus instead of dual listers?

@David

Why would that happen if they can afford $300 per month extra cash for subscription fees ?

Because they can't. I would start talking about fake monopoly money but I won't bother people more than I already have. I just want a nice tag system.

@David

I'm busy working on a Physics problem of a sliding minor mass along a circular curve of a sliding major mass using La Grange energy equations. In short, a pendulum curve along a sliding mass over time.

Let me guess, that's going to end up as something dropped from an aircraft.

meruca

@MegMac

Keyword management is one of the few things I do not use Opus for because I cannot
see a list of Keywords or export a list of Keywords.

Right. It's wise to use the right tool for the right job. But even better if one program has a combination of the best tools on the market, within its area of expertise. So I would ask Dopus to improve tagging, which wouldn't be that far of a stretch, instead of ask a tag program to improve their file management, which would require a divine miracle.

[David]

Forget it !
Deleted by author.

[MichaelScott]

When I get home to my computer soon I can share the code for it. I also made a clear tags button as well. Yeah I sometimes I like doing multiple listers when transferring files for my brain to keep things separated instead of tabs or dual panes. I can freely move the panes around as I want and remember what is what haha.

[ASUNDER]

Can the filter bar filter by tags? I can't seem to get it to work; I've tried everything.
Can't see any mentions of tags in the manual page either.

[ASUNDER]

@MichaelScott

When I get home to my computer soon I can share the code for it.

I'll be having that code please.

[ASUNDER]

Apparently rich text documents and plain text documents can't support tags either.
The manual says Dopus side cars tags when they aren't supported. ?